We know exactly what puts color in our white coats. It's anything red like a blk/rd, red sable, etc., is the worst. Breeding 4-5 generations or more of whites on both sides gives you really white whites! Even breeding a blk/tn to a white for the first time can give you color on a white. But you'll have some in that litter that will be whiter than the others. We have to be careful about pigment because breeding to a standard coat only helps give you great or better pigment if that dog/bitch DOESN'T fade themselves. That goes for both sire/dam. We strive for better pigment in our whites than their white coats. The very first thing we strive for his health, intelligence & type. Kathy www.JoKaySedona.com AND that is likely why we see so many variations of "off colors" on the white breeders web sites....as they often do not know what colors they actually ARE breeding? This is another reason why we should allow the white GSD to become separate. ONLY the white breeders can, or want to keep up with this constant vigil on color....while most of us are striving to get even darker richer colors in our dogs... Carolyn marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx www.marhaven.com ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2012. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her post. This group and its administrators are not responsible for the comments or opinions expressed in any post. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org SUBSCRIPTION:http://showgsd.org/mail.html NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ ============================================================================