I just had to reply to this one even thou I usually just read and take in the information from all the other posts. This one kind of hit home. Years ago back in the late 70's My male , Satan, was bred to an all black female, named Baby, 3 different times. In their first litter they had 13 puppies, all survived, in their second litter they had 15, with 12 surviving. They bred her to a different male and she did not conceive. They brought her back and bred her to Satan and she had 17 puppies with 15 surviving. In their second litter of 15 we had twins born in the same sack connected by the same cord. They were still born and she later laid on the smallest one. We are talking about a near 100 pound female here. She was probably the largest ( but not fat) female I have ever laid my eyes on. I know this is very unusual but I know this to be fact that they were twins Because I whelped her and I took the Stillborn pups to my vet to confirm they were twins as I had never before seen this happen. This female would only conceive from my male even thou her owners tried to breed her to a couple other males. We used to joke about the fact that they were committed to each other for life as Baby had been raised with Satan before I got him. I have since had 13 in one litter out of my black female and her last litter was 11. This is a lot of puppies for one female to feed ,raise , and take care of let alone all the work that the human part must do to insure they are all healthy and well adjusted once mom leaves. This is hard work , Period. Good luck and congratulations to this litter's owners. Barb Gambill-St. Louis, Mo. Home of Victory Shepherds since 1966- where solid blacks are # 1 and always will be. ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2005. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://www.showgsd.org ============================================================================