[sac-forum] Re: Waiver-amendment debate.....

  • From: Stan Gorodenski <stan_gorodenski@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: sac-forum@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 11:54:25 -0800

My comments follow:

Paul Dickson wrote:

On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 09:25:33 -0800, Stan Gorodenski wrote:

These are my comments, mostly in the form of questions which may not be helpful.


  1. _A club event is only one occurring on the day, time, and place
     that the Board of Directors formally specifies._
  2. _Participants at club events are only those who are:_
        1. _members or invited guests and_
        2. _who also have signed the release for the event, when a
           release is required._

1. Do these releases really do any good or do they just alert the attendee that the club thinks it is protected? In this regard, anyone can file a law suit even if it ends up having no merit because of the waiver they signed. However, it might cost the club the entire treasury to get to the point of a judge ruling that it has no merit and the judge may or may not award attorney fees. Also, related to this, I remember incorporation was being discussed to protect officers and administrators from being individually sued. Has this fallen by the wayside?

We are following the advice of our lawyer. Do you have evidence that he's wrong?

My comments are not intended to be the absolute word or to disprove an attorney, nor to be combative. Hopefully, they might add something others, including your attorney, has not thought of.

2. Who makes the determination that a guest is an invited guest, the member bringing a guest, or in the case of someone that shows up by themselves the person distributing the wavers?

Yes. Otherwise the are not a participant at the event. This is from our lawyer. While we can't remove people from the site, we can legally distance ourselves.

3. Are waivers going to be required of the public at public star parties?

To be determined. SAC doesn't hold public star parties. We just provide the telescopes.

4. How is this going to be enforced? If all that can be done to a member is terminate membership, it doesn't solve the problem at the moment.

True. What if someone refused to turn out their white lights? There is no magical solution, but any further activity by the former member might be treated as harassment.

5. Would a waiver protect Steve Coe from a liability lawsuit, for example, if the board decided to have a club event at his house?

If he was listed as the provider of the event and requested the use of the waiver, then yes.

This Constitution shall be amended only by consent of a majority of the voting membership at a regular or special business meeting called for that purpose_ or the regular meeting following submission_. Any amendment so passed shall take effect immediately.

I am against this change. It is too vague - "the regular meeting following submission" - immidiately after? I think the change would make it easier for things to be voted on without the full membership being aware that something they might want to vote on will be on the agenda. When something is labeled a "business" meeting, as it is called in the current bylaw, most people know this means possibly voting on something.

Too vague? The line above your quoted material says the amendment must be turn in at a meeting. So how can "the regular meeting following submission" be vague? All club meetings these days have business taken care of usually in the first half-hour. Among others items it includes the treasurer's report.

You made my point about being vague. I had assumed at least a month would pass before being considered at a meeting. From what you said, it appears an issue could be brought up for vote without members having been aware prior to the meeting that something like an amendment to the bylaws would be voted on. If I am wrong about my preception of what you just said, than it is because the proposed amendment is vague, the point I am making. Further, my main concern is that the change will curtail the current timeframe and procedure whereby members can become well aware that something of importance will be considered at an upcoming meeting.

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