Noel.
You have a great point. If a church wants a digital organ that is completely
in the tradition of the digital organs manufactured by Rodgers when it was
owned by Roland, now is the time to get one. Rogers used Roland technology to
build its first digital organ and that continued until Roland sold Rodgers.
Hopefully, the new Rodgers organs built with different technology will sound
the same as always. Johannes organs use the A/B system to get a pipe organ
sound. Rodgers uses the stereo system to get a pipe organ sound. That alone
will make a difference in how the speaker layouts are designed and I suspect
some differences in what we hear.
Baldwin used the A/B system in its American digital organs. However, that was
in 1989 when they were designed. I don't know how the A/B technology has
progressed over time.
In general, it would seem to me that in smaller organs especially, that stereo
sampling is superior especially if there are only two channels of sound for the
entire organ.
When playing a scale the A/B system does well. Play the C scale. The note C
comes from speaker A. The note D comes from speaker B and so on. The problem
with the Baldwin system is that when playing the very same note in succession,
the sound would come from the A speaker first and then on repeating the note,
the sound would then come from the B speaker. That would sometimes throw my
ear as I knew there were not two different pipes of the same stop playing the
same note on the organ!
It appears to me that A/B technology requires many more channels of sound that
stereo sampling to get close to the same effect.
Even so, the Rodgers stereo sampling provides for the sound to come from many
points in the room as far as how our ears can hear it. I don't believe that
could be done as well with A/B technology.
I mention this because I've read that Rodgers will sound different even if it
uses the much of "technology" used by Johannes, because Rodgers organs will
continue using its highly acclaimed stereo sampling. Rodgers will choose the
organs that will be used to get their samples. Johannes will chose their
organs as well.
I suspect that both Johannes and Rodgers may choose the same famous organs to
get samples. Saint Paul's Cathedral in London and the Notre Dame organ in
Paris are two examples.
The sound from the digital organ may sound very different from each organ,
Rodgers and Johannes, even though the very same stop was used by both to be
sampled.
If the decision was to put Rodgers nameplate on some of the Johannes' organs
then there would be no need to keep the Rodgers factory in Oregon.
Also, we need to keep in mind that Johannes does not own Rodgers. The two
companies are legally separate. There is a holding company primarily owned by
one family that has 100 % ownership of both companies.
As for the Rodgers models being made now, they are in some form or fashion
backed by Roland. Roland is still using the very same technology that is in
the present line of Rodgers organs and will continue to do so for the immediate
future.
Due to the secular market of digital instruments having such a very larger
market, there are many more instruments with the Roland name on them than
digital instruments with the Rodgers name on them.
If I had the money to do so, I would very much consider buying a Rodgers organ
made with Roland technology. I would love to be able to take the Infinity
three manual and head to Oregon and design a custom organ. The three manual
sample organ has 61 stops.
However stop names can be given to the Library stops. If they were done, there
are, I think, 9 library stops. They still would be on my designed organ, but
a there would be a name given. Then it could be said that the organ has 70
stops. The engraved stops very well could have about 85 ranks.
The concept of mass produced organs that can have the stop lists built starting
with zero is a concept only provided by Rodgers. Other companies do built
custom organs, but the concept and process of doing so is totally different
making the cost much higher.
The downside of purchasing a Roland based Rodgers is that Rodgers has over the
last few years severely reduced the number of models available.
Rodgers once had four or so, depending on which year, two manual drawknob
models. Today, Rodgers no longer manufactures a two manual drawknob console.
In the two manual market, Rodgers now as one 27 stop model with a deluxe model
available. Rodgers also has a 29 stop model available.
For three manual models, Rodgers has a 39 stop stop rail model, an identical 39
stop drawknob console and a 61 stop drawknob model. That is it.
There is only one four manual, an 84 stop drawknob console. There is no longer
a five manual Rodgers being manufactured.
There are no only a total of seven Rodgers models being manufactured today.
Rodgers has dropped its two manual drawknob console, its French styled 39 stop
model and its four manual 51 stop stop rail model in the past year.
I can see where this doesn't help the buy now as no one will ever make an
organ as good as the Roland based technology Rodgers organs made from 1990 or
so until 2017 or so.
I now know that it is in the customizing of the organ for the church for the
organ that is where the real difference lies. That is especially true for the
organs for large churches. Rodgers can build extensive sound systems and
choose which array of speakers will broadcast the sound. for each stop or group
of stops. Some of the famous pipe organs have an organ in the chancel, the
balcony and other places throughout the large church or cathedral. Rodgers can
do this as each stop can have up to four different places where the sound can
be chosen to originate.
In three and four manual custom organs, the Infinity is still the organ of
choice to select all the stops and design a custom sound system to reflect
where the sound would come if this were an actual pipe organ.
I don't know if there is a company that can do this except for companies that
only build custom organs. These organs are very expensive. It is my
understanding that Rodgers can build such an organ with much less money spent
than any of the totally custom organs can do. Not only that, but since the
technology is the same as the mass produced models, Rodgers can support these
organs as years and decades go by.
Having a super organ that needs some repair in order to play becomes moot, when
no one knows a technician that understands the technology of an organ in which
only 100 organs using this technology were made and 40 of the organs have been
discarded due to the fact that they can't be repaired.
There are many Conns, Baldwins, non tone wheel Hammonds, etc. they can't be
played as parts aren't available and sometimes, no technician understands how
to repair them. Concerning problems with the Rodgers line of organs. It is in
the two manual for sure and to some degree three manual organs that Rodgers
simply does not have the choices in "stock" models that the other "big four"
organ companies have and that Rodgers once had.
That is a concern for me as I am serving a church that seats 300 people. There
aren't that many places where the sound of the organ can originate. Even with
the 40 foot apex, the walls come down to twelve feet. Our organ sounds as good
as it did the day it was installed, We are not in a market for an organ.
However, my instincts are to look at the smaller models and see what are
available in each organ companies likes of organs.
If our church were to put in the finest pipe organ that can reasonably be
built, it would qualify as a chapel organ, not a cathedral organ. At most it
could be a three manual with 50 or less ranks. There would be no 32 foot
stops. There is no place to put them
I like the concept of using the same number of stops as a basic model, but with
several different model options. Then the church or organist can decide
whether the stop rail or drawknob is what they like best or what they can
afford.
Rodger's at once used the concept of a model series that had as an example a 33
stop stop rail and then a 38 stop draw knob as companion models. Now the stop
rail and the drawknob companions both would have 38 stops. The drawknob model
would have options such as double the number of channels as an option; moveable
stops rather than lighted stops and other options that the stop rail model
would not have.
However, when I visited the other three companies that have a world wide
distribution network of sales, Rodgers looks very thin compared to the others
when considering the different models available.
All three of the other "big" digital organ companies have several lines.
Rodgers has only two.
Rodgers has now has only seven models in all. The other "big four" companies
have about that number of series available. Plus. they have several models for
each series that they sell.
I suspect that there aren't as many actual models as it appears with some
company models. Take the Rodgers 61 Infinity. Rodgers could produce a 54
stop Infinity model can be added to the line of models with little expense.
First decide which seven stops will be dropped from the 61 stop model. Then
order a console that does not cut out the holes for those seven stops. Come up
with a slightly different specification.
Presto, a new Rodgers 54 stop Infinity has been added to the Infinity line.
All that needs to be done to make it a 61 stop model is cut some holes where
they missing stops should be and activate those stops. It is the same organ.
Then the 54 stop Infinity can be priced at the same price as the 61 model
Infinity is now. Then, the 61 stop Infinity can have its price jacked up a bit
more since it is a "bigger organ." Of course this is really a joke. But it
allows for two models and now makes the customer pay more for the original 61
stop model. Win, win for Rodgers. Lose, lose for the customer.
My point is that the number of models may or may not really be relevant. But
to an organist comparing the web sites of the big four digital pipe organ
companies might assume that Rodgers is an inferior organ since it doesn't have
pages of different lines and models of line.
Rodgers could with a stroke of a pen set up several new models that are really
models already produced. Rodgers could then offer many models. I could
manufacture these new models here at home and send them to Rodgers to
advertise. Cutting different size holds is all that would need to be done to
existing models.
A web site problem for Rodgers is finding several videos of any of the Artist
models. This can be a major challenge. They are around, but it isn't easy to
find them from the Rodger's web site. They are on Y Tube. However, a person
has to be able to discern which videos are of Rodgers organs that are still
being manufactured and which ones are of organs that are no longer available as
new organs.
This could hurt the sale of Rodgers organs.
If Rodgers has one of those Roland based organs that can't be sold because
Rodgers is just like Moller, it is easy to find my house in Smackover. My
first reasonable choice would be the three manual 39 stop Artist. I'm not sure
I have the room for a 12 channel four manual 84 stop Infinity. However, if a
free 84 stop Infinity is available that also includes the 12 Rodgers speakers,
you can bet that I can find the room! My ability to determine if it is
reasonable would be long gone!
Robert McMenisMinister of WorshipFirst UMCSmackover, ARhome of an 808
Masterpiece with MX
On Monday, July 3, 2017 3:55 PM, Noel jones <noel@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I’ve just received a message from a non-member of the group that I tried to
forward to the group, if it does not come through possibly he can sign up.
But he is advising people to wait and is not recommending the purchase of
Rodgers organs until we hear the result of the new technology.
Honestly, this is the wrong approach…and part of the reason the that Moller
Pipe Organ Company failed to stay in business when it was resurrected for the
last time.
The Moller sales network was full of new dealers from digital organ companies
who took on dealerships but did nothing, “We are waiting to see if the company
succeeds before we spend anytime trying to sell Moller.” was the comment we
kept hearing.
Today is the time to tell people to buy Rodgers.
The organs are the same organs, the technology is the same. The woodworking is
done in Holland and shipped in.
Buy Rodgers NOW while you are able to get the current technology. Waiting
until the change hurts Rodgers dealers and churches that want the Rodgers sound.
Noel Jones, AAGO
noel@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
www.frogmusic.com
Frog Music Press
636 Old 19
Augusta, KY 41002
606 756 7979
423 333 0947 cell
