Do they make non-metallic quick links?
Cheers,
Rick Dickinson
On January 30, 2017 5:44:49 PM PST, Wedge Oldham <wedgeoldham@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
If mass isn't mass; then it doesn't matter.
Seriously; the nose cone of my Nike Hercules came in ballistic in
Amarillo. It weighed 42 pounds; and fell from 12,000 feet.
Is there a non-metal material that would have made this safer?
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 30, 2017, at 5:10 PM, Troy Monroe Stacey<tstacey001@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
<adrian@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Clearly, the real debate is:
If mass is/isn't mass.
Best,
Troy Monroe Stacey
-------------------
On Jan 30, 2017, at 4:29 PM, Adrian P. Bailey
[mailto:roc-chat-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of R Dierking
So, did the lakebed dry a little while we were chatting?<
It must have, with all the hot air… ;)
From: roc-chat-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<roc-chat@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 3:22 PM
To: Michael Klett <xsive.guy@xxxxxxxxx>; ROC Chat
(discussion/consideration/thinking out of the box), is not onlySubject: [roc-chat] Re: Prohibiting Metal for Nose Weight
Ok, might be a little off-topic. But, this kind of thing
interesting, but necessary. Otherwise, it goes like, incident, rule,
incident, rule. How much fun would that be. Or, how about, let’s do
the same damn thing all the time.
lakebed and it’s not even February. Sorry, but come on guys! You all
Remember, some people were discussing the current condition of the
have been going to the lakebed enough times to know this is kind of
pointless now.
topic things. 😊
OK, I’m a pain. I’m actually being nice. I have hundreds of these
face of established dogma, watch out! And, the reasons people will
One thing that I know, when you bring something up that flies in the
stand on to defend; OMG.
after another without knowing the fate of the previous rocket. And,For example, I once said that it was dangerous launching one rocket
people said, “what about the line of people waiting!” So, I replied, I
have a bow, not a powerful one, but I will stand by the low power pads,
and shoot one straight as possible into the air, and then immediately
fire another. “You can’t do that!” “That’s dangerous!”
metal material and particles of other solid materials. Or, even water.
I’m accumulated a list of things. But, I don’t keep track.
So, did the lakebed dry a little while we were chatting?
From: R Dierking
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 3:07 PM
To: Michael Klett; ROC Chat
Subject: [roc-chat] Re: Prohibiting Metal for Nose Weight
Not taking feathers. Considering the differences between pieces of
If the volume difference is significant (lead vs. feathers) you may
From: Michael Klett
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 2:49 PM
To: ROC Chat
Subject: [roc-chat] Re: Prohibiting Metal for Nose Weight
Yes, they weight the same but their volume can be very different.
need more weight to counteract the location of the CG of the weight.
wrote:
On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 2:37 PM, David Smith <davew6dps@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:Mike,
An ounce of BBs weighs the same as an ounce of sand.
Mass is Mass.
Dave
On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 2:34 PM, Michael Klett <xsive.guy@xxxxxxxxx>
need a pound at the middle (depending the length of the rocket,No, mass is not mass. If I needed 4 oz of weight at the tip I would
placement of CP an CG etc. The point is the lever arm.) With lead I
can get really close to the tip. With feathers I'd need a lot more
volume and the cg of the mass would not be near the tip so I'd need
perhaps a pound of feathers to be equivalent to the 4 oz in moving the
rocket's CG. The length of distance between the center of Mass of the
rocket without the weight and the center of mass of the added weight
determines how much weight you need to add. At the tip "less is more".
place it in fact becomes "trash" on the playa because of the epoxy.
But to your other point. Once I add the epoxy to keep the sand in
And if I've used the epoxy and things come apart a 4 oz blob of
sand/epoxy is going to hurt just as much (probably) as a 4 oz blob of
lead/epoxy.
Although I must admit your idea of using water for ballast on the way
Sorry, I don't see any benefit to changing materials currently.
up and letting it drain out on the way down to reduce weight at landing
has always fascinated me.
<applerocketry@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Thanks,
Mike
On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 2:19 PM, R Dierking
to what you knew first.Sorry Mike. I believe you have not considered other things and went
material for nose weight. It’s just not that critical.Yes, mass is mass. I don’t think anyone needs a high density
that insists on metal material. But, what the heck, I’m trying anyway.However, it would probably be impossible for me to convince anyone
epoxy. I would also argue that by using lead they occupy less volume
Richard
From: Michael Klett
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 2:15 PM
To: ROC Chat
Subject: [roc-chat] Re: Prohibiting Metal for Nose Weight
Richard,
My ballast of choice is lead BBs. They seem safely captured in
so I can get the center of the mass of the BBs further in to the tip of
the nose cone and so I need less weight. Less weight is safer. If I
tried to put the weight in the AvBay for instance, I'd need a lot more
weight to balance the rocket and the additional weight would reduce the
safety some.
<applerocketry@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Thanks,
Michael
On Mon, Jan 30, 2017 at 2:05 PM, R Dierking
rocket but accepts rockets with a nose containing bolts or lean shot.Then why do even people with model rockets use metal?
The RSO wouldn’t want someone with an aluminum nose cone on a HP
And, having taken a nose apart that had bb’s set in 5 minute epoxy, the
epoxy cracks and releases the bb’s.
on their website here:
From: Allen Farrington
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2017 1:59 PM
To: roc-chat@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [roc-chat] Re: Prohibiting Metal for Nose Weight
Tripoli has an official statement on using metal...you can find it
http://www.tripoli.org/Portals/1/Documents/Safety%20Code/Metal%20in%20Rocket%20Construction%20v2.0.pdf
wrote:
Allen
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 30, 2017, at 1:50 PM, R Dierking <applerocketry@xxxxxxxxxxx>
something about what kind of nose weight should be used or how about
Next time the NAR and TRA safety rules are revised, there should be
shouldn’t be used.
metal? Why add it? There’s no good reason why metal has to be used;Don’t the codes already say something about minimizing the use of
there are other things that would work fine.
rocket with other types of weight could hurt someone just as bad. Yes,
And, just to get ahead of the one response that’s going to ask if a
I realize that. But, again, if you think through the various failure
scenarios, metal (bolts, lead shot, bb’s, what ever…) is a poor choice
for nose weight.
for both safety and performance.
What other things could be used? Things that would be even better
Richard Dierking
--
Justice shall flourish in his time, and fullness of peace for ever.
Psalm 72
--
Justice shall flourish in his time, and fullness of peace for ever.
Psalm 72
--
David P Smith
NAR 78668, L2
Amateur Extra, W6DPS
--
Justice shall flourish in his time, and fullness of peace for ever.
Psalm 72
