But, how would the launch of something like this be safely initiated?
Particularly at a ROC launch.
All the parts for an electric powered rocket are readily available. But how to
safely guide and launch something like this? And, could use electronics to
deploy recovery. Or, how about reversing the polarity to the motor for apogee
to main deployment? Really sounds like a fun project.
Richard
On Feb 9, 2018, at 9:42 AM, John Coker <john@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
Taking a look at that product, it feels like something that fits in with
model rocketry. It uses an electric motor and propeller instead of a black
powder motor, but otherwise appears to be a rocket, not an airplane nor a
drone.
True, a propeller is not a true rocket motor (since it requires atmosphere),
but that seems a pretty fine point to prevent people from flying what is
obviously just another type of propelled hobby rocket.
John
On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 9:27 AM, Richard Dierking <applerocketry@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:applerocketry@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
You might want to go back a bit in the messages. And, even take another look
at the subject title. I’m not an experienced RC pilot, but RC stands for
Radio Controlled, and I’m assuming that means Radio Controlled flight
operated by someone on the ground. If this is true, than there’s an existing
law about amateur RC aircraft. So, no amateur RC rockets, with the exception
of rocket motor boosted gliders.
Again, I suggest the Board consider electric powered rockets (up and down
parts of the flight). Might be good just to get ahead of a potential
situation at a launch. And, how about rockets that could parachute back to a
closer recovery area? And, how about rockets with automated stability?
Soon, even amateur rockets will not need a launch pad, or even fins. Maybe
just have a ‘rule’ that new technologies must be submitted for review before
the launch.
In general, I think it’s good to keep an open mind about new things, and
actually encourage the development of new things. I recall posting the
subject 'Radar or Something Like It’ and getting the email equivalent of a
kick in the butt. But, look at what is happening at launches now, aren’t
people using apps for monitoring commercial air traffic?
So, to be a participant in the development of the future, or just ride time
and perhaps except new things as they come along?
Richard Dierking
On Feb 9, 2018, at 8:13 AM, Rich Silva <richsilv@xxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:richsilv@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
I’ve been waiting for one of the more seasoned and active members to chime
in on this…
So I’ll pose it as a question instead of a statement…
Isnt it the ATF that would have the heartburn about any kind of R/C
recovery… Doesn’t that smack of the (I forget both the official and the
conventional term for it) “we cant actively guide our hobby rockets” rules?
(A rule that the Boosted R/C Gliders play in a Gray area of…)
From: roc-chat-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:roc-chat-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:roc-chat-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ;
<mailto:roc-chat-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>] On Behalf Of Eric Holmberg (Redacted
sender "enholmberg" for DMARC)
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2018 3:35 PM
To: roc-chat@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:roc-chat@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [roc-chat] Re: Electric Powered Rocket
R/C recovery seems to be a bad subject with the club. The FAA and BLM has
given the club a box to fly in on launch day, so I would think some thing
that helps our recovery stay in that box would be better than ending up who
knows where.
Thanks, Eric
On Feb 8, 2018, at 12:34 PM, Paul Pittenger <ppittenger@gmailcom
<mailto:ppittenger@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
I like the powered recovery idea, normal rocket up but then instead of a
parachute have a rotor setup, maybe like an estes Helicat nose cone but
tethered to rest of rocket, powered and with a flight computer, so that it
could spin up to really reduce the descent rate as it neared the ground,
That would be interesting even without the additional complexity of
steering back to the launch site, which seems like it would require
multiple rotors & motors and a much more complicated GPS flight computer.
One thing this would prevent is dragging across the dry lake bed... once it
landed and motor turned off there would be nothing to catch the wind and
drag the rocket around killing your paint job.
ROCtober was so great ! Hoping to get down there for some launch again
this year.
Paul
On Thu, Feb 8, 2018 at 10:23 AM, Richard Dierking <applerocketry@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:applerocketry@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Thank you Mike!
After reading the description, I can’t stop laughing. “Just waiting to be
unleashed outside.” And, also says “Recommended for outdoor use.” OMG,
really! Wow, on those W days, we could just hold the launch inside. :-)
Also, it has three modes of altitude with the highest 200’. But, can be
launched like 50 times on a charge. So….
Looks like the Board does have something to consider. It’s not RC.
Interesting.
On Feb 8, 2018, at 8:52 AM, Mike Ostby <mikeostby@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:mikeostby@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Air-Hogs-Sonic-Rocket-High-flying-Motorized-Rocket/829455820?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=0&wl13=2206&adid=22222222228128752915&wl0=&wl1=s&wl2=m&wl3=235177691905&wl4=pla-387284505961&wl5=9031594&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=8175035&wl11=local&wl12=829455820&wl13=2206&veh=sem
<https://www.walmart.com/ip/Air-Hogs-Sonic-Rocket-High-flying-Motorized-Rocket/829455820?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=0&wl13=2206&adid=22222222228128752915&wl0=&wl1=s&wl2=m&wl3=235177691905&wl4=pla-387284505961&wl5=9031594&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=8175035&wl11=local&wl12=829455820&wl13=2206&veh=sem>
On Feb 5, 2018 2:58 PM, "Richard Dierking" <applerocketry@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:applerocketry@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Thank you David. Yeah, again, I don’t wish to encourage any illegal
behavior. Also, people should note that ROC has specific rules about RC
aircraft at launches.
So, I’ve been reading about companies such as Uber planning for air
taxi’s. That’s going to be interesting, because what would the ceiling
be if there was a passenger but no pilot? This is a cool subject, and
creates many questions.
I’m just considering different types of recovery systems lately; even
some wild ones. Particularly for high alt flights (<50K’). I was
reasoning that if something could propel a rocket up, then it should be
able to slow it for landing. Again, just tossing it around.
How about a Mylar balloon that would inflate at apogee (again, high alt)
with the shock cord attached to the aft end of the rocket. At high alt
the balloon would be fully inflated providing the most surface area for
drag. Then the balloon would deflate on the descent so the velocity
would be steady. But, might be better to have something that would have
high velocity descent and slow down close to main deployment. I’m kind
of working on something like that now.
On Feb 5, 2018, at 12:49 PM, David Smith <davew6dps@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:davew6dps@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
What you are describing would be subject FAA regulations, just as any
other powered free-flight aircraft.
You should look into AMA membership and find a local model aircraft
club, rather than try to imagine a grey area that actually does not
exist.
Rocket launched gliders conflate things, but are addressed by NAR
rules. A free-flight aircraft launched at a NAR/TRA would simply be in
the wrong place.
The interesting question is powered recovery for a rocket. That would
be an interesting process to discuss.
Dave Smith
NAR 78668/TRA 15803 L2
Amateur Extra, W6DPS
On Feb 5, 2018 6:47 AM, "Richard Dierking" <applerocketry@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:applerocketry@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Just speaking of capability (because I don’t wish to encourage anyone
to do something illegal), the higher-end commercial quadcopters have
ceilings that can be set up to 10,000m. I can’t find anything
specifically stating what the ceiling is. Seems like this
specification is avoided.
But, what I suggested was not RC. Which is kind of funny, because
that would probably make it a safer flight. Keep in mind that the
400’ maximum for RC is to provide the 100’ buffer to the lower limit
of 500’ for manned aircraft, and ROC’s waiver for unmanned rockets
goes higher than 400’. So, what’s better, going over 400’ and being
in control or not being in control? Yeah, always better to be out of
control. LOL
Anyway, the whole VTOL electric aircraft topic is really interesting
and I’ve been doing some research on the subject. But, it’s
developing quickly with new entries all the time. I would like to go
OT if others were interested because I have more questions every time
I read about some new venture into this market. I have identified 3
major obstacles to the use of this technology btw.
Richard
