True for APCP, but foot-long chunks of 1" PVC (1-1/4"OD) are perfect fits for 38mm UC-valve hybrid motors and -- with five minutes' hacksaw work -- will power some nice midlevel flights. Grains don't come much cheaper than that! Of course,nitrous is an out-of-pocket expense unless you're a dentist. And, yep, it helps to know someone with GSE. Then there's sugar motors. One of these days I swear I'm gonna build a bird from nothing but supermarket OTC stuff! Come to think of it, Bill Colburn told the story of someone who built a hybrid motor using a cored-out pepperoni for the fuel grain. It also occurs to me there's nitrous in them thar whipped-cream cans... Cheers, Mark L. DC Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2014 12:40:01 -0500 Subject: [roc-chat] Re: Cal Pyro Rocket 3rd Class From: Carlo Vaccari <airplaniac2002@xxxxxxxxx> I have heard many a time that making your own motors is rarely a moneysaver.