Boy, you aint kidding about the choices. Ignorance sure is bliss. Heck, I thought, how many variants of an acoustic guitar can there be? A hell of a lot more than I expected. But that's okay. I'm in no rush. So I'll continue poking around the net, learning the terminology, tips and tricks, things to consider, etc. as well as listening to demos. I figure I should spend some time doing this before I even consider going to a shop and getting completely overwhelmed when they've got 50 guitars in the price range I specify. So I'll keep plugging away at it until I at least have some idea of what I'm looking for. It's an interesting endeavor; I'll say that much.
Tom On 12/9/2011 5:45 AM, Chris Belle wrote:
Oh yeh, as long as you realize, those tones didn't come strictly from the guitar. Lots of external processing going on. With good amp simulation and modeling, you can make even a cheap pizo sound decent. That's part of the psychology of selling it, you know like making those big keyboard sounds in the store huge pads and big well, we've talked about this stuff before how roland and yamy and such have big tones but kurtzweil sounds fit in a mix so nicely but don't sound so good by themselves necessarily. It's a little different situation here, but to me, you just can't get away from that pizo plugged in sound if your using an acoustic guitar plugged in. It's like hospital food, best you can do is season it some 'grin'. But sitting on the couch and playing for enjoyment, it won't mater, that taylor will sound good. And if you can afford it, why not? There are a lot more choices these days than there used to be. At 04:00 PM 12/8/2011, you wrote:Interesting. Taylors and Martins were the first two I listened to. I figured what the heck, I might as well start at the top and work my way down to see how much things change. And yeah, they're like opposite ends of the spectrum; Martins being punchy and bold while Taylors are mellow and warmer. I guess I just like that mellow warm sound considering that I see no future for the guitar and me other than personal enjoyment and relaxation. And while listening, the thought of kicking back, playing for the pure enjoyment of playing, and hearing that nice full bodied round tone seemed more inviting because I won't be trying to fit it into or get it to cut through anything. And regarding the T5? Well, of course you can't get the best of all worlds out of one axe, but hey, I (not being a guitar player) was pretty impressed on how much they could offer in one guitar. Tom On 12/8/2011 12:19 PM, Chris Belle wrote:Taylors are considered by many to be the cadalac of acoustic guitars. To me, they are sort of well, a lot of women play taylors because of the thin neck, and they are fine instruments, but I like something with a little more balls. It doesn't have to be a loud boomy martin, but something in between. Gipson, tocs, anything like that. Taylors are fine instruments, but as you've noticed extremely pricey, and quality is worth it sometimes, but you can get many guitars for a lot less which are very fine instruments. I've played taylors before, and for me, 3 times the price isn't three times the wow yummy factor, but a guitar is a very personal thing, so go try lots of them before you decide. If you want the best plugged in sound, I like the fishman pickups, but then they use a micro-phone combo with traditional pick-up system, there you go, can't get away from the microphone. It's inside the guitar, so too much mic and you get that hollow cave effects from the mic being inside the guitar, but what most folk players do is use some sort of decent pick-up system, and a 57 or whatever on stage, and work in and out of the mic. When I mic a guitar, I love to stereo mic, use the hotspot usually near the bridge, run a line from the tail to the bottom of the guitar, a quarter circle, and; your hotspot will be someplace in there where the tone is clear but not boomy and it will be the louest usually, and then a mic at the place between the sound hole and the neck, the traditional micing position. Mics being close to the guitar and close to each other insures no phasing problems, and gives you a glorious stereo spread. also i like to mix the plugged in sound with a mic for an electro-acoustic sound if a pure acoustic tone isn't absolutely necessary, like for contemporary stuff. My acoustic variax is pretty amazing how good it sounds for a fake guitar going through a dsp, but it doesn't play nicely like my toc, it's made kind of cheap, but for quickly grabbing and playing a track in the control room for a rhythm or a few licks on a stock country gospel track it's fine. I'm getting lazy in my old age 'grin'. At 09:42 AM 12/8/2011, you wrote:Ah, okay. I see what you're saying now. Thanks again. I've been doing a little listening and I really like the warm tone of Taylor guitars. But of course I've only heard the tip of the iceberg. So I guess I won't order one today. Heh! But the T5 hybrid is really cool. Search for it on YouTube and give it a listen. It's like 5 guitars in one. Just don't look at the price tag. Tom On 12/8/2011 10:06 AM, Chris Belle wrote:Sorry 'grin', I will explain further. When you pluck the string gently hold your finger at the 12th fret and you will get a harmonic. Then pluck the string and really fret the string at the 12th fret, and you will get a tone. See how close the tones match. If they are spot on, you have a good instrument most likely. At 03:38 AM 12/8/2011, you wrote:Pardon my ignorance oh great guitar guru. But I don't understand what you mean when you say to pluck the strings at the 12th fret and then pluck them *fretted* at the same fret. If they're not fretted how is plucking a string up at the 12th fret going to generate the same pitch. I just see myself plucking an open string up at that fret. So what am I missing? Thanks, Tom On 12/8/2011 3:11 AM, Chris Belle wrote:I wish I lived near you, I'd go ax shopping with you. But here aresome things to check. When looking at an acoustic guitar with a fixed bridge, pluck the strings at the 12th fret, and then pluck them fretted at the same frett and see if you notice a marked difference in pitch. This is intonation, if the pitches are noticeably different, you'll never tune that guitar correctly. Sometimes this can be helped out by a good guitar tech, but usually, this is a fixed thing on lots of acoustic guitars. On electrics, even on the inexpensive ones, the sadxdles move back and forth and you can adjust the ratio of the distances between the string nutt and the bridge to make the tones match up. Fret your strings up and down the neck and notice if there are any buzzy spots, and feel the frets, see if they feel smooth and even. when you turn the machine heads to tune, notice if the strings tune smoothly or catch, notice if the machine heads feel wobbly or tight, some can be tightened and adjusted, some are fixed. At 01:12 AM 12/8/2011, you wrote:Thanks again, Chris. Wow. Lots to think about. Tom On 12/7/2011 10:40 PM, Chris Belle wrote:At 04:09 PM 12/7/2011, you wrote:Hey Chris, Thanks. Here's a few questions intermingled with your comments. On 12/7/2011 8:45 AM, Chris Belle wrote:Ok, never mind, 'grin', the simple answer is that take any reasonable electric guitar, and any reasonable acoustic guitar, and the answer is that yes, the electric will be easier to fret. But controling pressure, and not over strongly pressing on strings, and such and hitting the strings with just the right amount of force, etc will all be different on an acoustic than an electric.So are you saying that playing an electric is along with being physically easier also more forgiving than that of an acoustic? Or to put it another way, does your technique have to be more finely tuned when playing an acoustic.No, you need a more delicate touch when playing the electric generally, because pressure can change pitch more quickly. That being said, gauges of string, and quality of instrument and of course technique matter on both. Also electric necks tend to be thinner, not always, but the size of your hands and such will matter, and there are different types of necks, c shaped, v shaped, and variations in between.There are hybrids like the gibson hollow bodies, which lean toward being more electric,More electric in both senses? e.g. sound and ease of playing? Sounds like a compelling compromise. But I don't imagine they would by any chance be the best of both worlds. On the other hand, would one of these beasts give me the easier electric action and also allow me to at least practice anywhere any time without having to plug in and power up an amp?Yes, and there are thinner guitars with thinner necks which player more easily, slim bodied acoustics like the alvarez I used to have, weren't very loud, but could still be played without being plugged in. also, there are small battery powered amps too.\ Ieven thin I read of something once, a small amp like thing that plugged in to the guitar and was so small it was part of the plug, but of course something like that couldn't be too loud. But an electro-acoustic would allow you to practice acoustic guitar technique, and let you plug in for gigs, you won't get the prestine acoustic sound, but going through a pa at the local vfw or eagles club, their not likely to complain because your guitar didn't sound like a 3k custom made taylor 'grin'. As lost as you can pick the orange blossom special or friendns in low places and are marginally in tune 'grin'.> and I do think for an all round guitarist, that learning your basics on > a decent acoustic will lay the foundation, later you can decide whether > you want to be an electric players mostly, or acoustic, or do both. Can you expand a bit on why you recommend an acoustic as the best starting point? Is it just going to give you the chops you need that will make an electric a breeze if you decide to go that route later on. Kind of like learning to play the piano on a cheap console, and if you had the will power to stick it out and suffer the pain and frustration of the instruments limits you step into a Steinway showroom one day and have an orgasm when you discover how effortless playing a piano can actually be.I think building up initial strength and caluses is important. and learning fundamentals, and an acoustic guitar will challenge you more to play cleanly, it's easy to cover up sloppy playing with distortion, and effects, and sort of slide by having fun but you can't cheat on an acoustic. It's harder to anyway, and once you have the foundation of an acoustic then electric will be easy to play you just have to adjust down to not fretting so hard, and picking more easily, in some cases, they are different beasts, but the acoustic is like taming the mule, and then a fine electric can be like riding a walking horse. Of course, there are some folks who won't or can't adjust to playing both, like some blue grass flat pickers who can eat up an acoustic are sloppy on an electric, it just depends on the person, like some folks can play piano great but can't master an organ, kind of that difference, just because it's a keyboard there are important differences. But still, I think the acoustic offers the best starting off place, I love to play both electric and acoustic, but I'm glad I learned on an acoustic. Just try and get one that's not a piece of junk to learn on, you don't need to spend thousands, but stay away from the beginner packages like we talked about unless you take someone with you who plays and can tell you the difference. sometimes I have found cheap guitars that play supprisingly well, and if this is something your not sure you'll really be in to forever, you may not want to drop a bundle, but start with something modest and see how it goes. but nothin will frustrate you quicker than a junky instrument whether it be electric or acoustic.Thanks for all the other tech-tips and commentary as well. Lots of good food for thought. TomFor all your audio production needs and technology training, visit us at www.affordablestudioservices.com or contact Chris Belle cb1963@xxxxxxxxxxxxx or Stephie Belle stephieb1961@xxxxxxxxxxxxx for customized web designFor all your audio production needs and technology training, visit us at www.affordablestudioservices.com or contact Chris Belle cb1963@xxxxxxxxxxxxx or Stephie Belle stephieb1961@xxxxxxxxxxxxx for customized web designFor all your audio production needs and technology training, visit us at www.affordablestudioservices.com or contact Chris Belle cb1963@xxxxxxxxxxxxx or Stephie Belle stephieb1961@xxxxxxxxxxxxx for customized web designFor all your audio production needs and technology training, visit us at www.affordablestudioservices.com or contact Chris Belle cb1963@xxxxxxxxxxxxx or Stephie Belle stephieb1961@xxxxxxxxxxxxx for customized web designFor all your audio production needs and technology training, visit us at www.affordablestudioservices.com or contact Chris Belle cb1963@xxxxxxxxxxxxx or Stephie Belle stephieb1961@xxxxxxxxxxxxx for customized web design
