[python] Sv: Re: PC2 rideable - and test results
- From: olaf <noll@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: python@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 09:40:47 +0200 (MEST)
>>Even still, when switching from one python to another, and I ask the
rider what their opinion
is, they always smile, sort of look off into the distance,
Aah, that's enough for me ;-)
unscientific olaf
----Ursprungligt meddelande----
Från: 25hz@xxxxxxxxxx
Datum: Oct 9, 2005 10:12:29 PM
Till: python@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Ärende: [python] Re: PC2 rideable - and test results
As Jurgen mentioned, none of the preferences for a lower pivot angle
and
longer wheelbase are "new" information. This was confirmed by other
builders and riders prior. The only thing we didn't get, was the
wheel flop
problems that were mentioned, but again, steep uphills might change
that.
The thing I wanted to get, was multiple riders riding the same bent,
at the
same time. For some reason, it's really hard to quantify exactly what
it is
from one python to the other that definitively makes it more
"whatever"
(enjoyable/rideable/easier to steer/easier to keep straight/etc) than
another python. The nice thing is, we have 5 riders and 3 pythons,
right
here, right now, so we cancompare more quickly and easily. Even
still, when
switching from one python to another, and I ask the rider what their
opinion
is, they always smile, sort of look off into the distance, and they
can't
usually come up with more than whether they like one more than
another,
overall. Different aspects like angle, wheelbase, seat height and BB
to
seat height, and quite likely traill, all have fairly specific "feels"
or
"functions", but they also bleed their influence into other areas.
It's a
very real symbiosis, that I think is very cool, and is one of the
reasons I
feel so satisfied as my riding skill progresses. I still think
Marcel's
python is "nicer" to ride than my BHP, but again, I'm not exactly sure
why.
A couple other sideline observations:
- sitting more upright seems to allow for a lower seat height
- a lower steering angle (ie 62 to 57degrees) also seems to allow the
seat
to be lower
- a short wheelbase with a stiff pivot provides a similar riding
confidence
as a long wheelbase with a more free swinging pivot
- you can have a very low seat angle (ie 25 to 35 degrees from
horizontal)
if you make the seat so it lifts your shoulders. You have the aero
gain,
but don't get the accompanying balance problems.
- while high pivot angles of 72+ degrees make handling unstable due to
loss
of feel of the self centering "weight", it is a similar feeling that
is
produced with long wheelbases of 51" or over in that it is equally
unstable
because it takes much more steering input for steering corrections,
even
with low pivot angles.
I think that if you have rod ends at the pivot, and have lots of
ground
clearance under the pivot point to start with(like 4"/10cm) then you
can
adjust just about any python to ride very nicely. You also can
tighten up
the pivot's feel, which riders seemed to like, not to mention the
simplicity
of it.
> Wow! Excellent report! It's nice to hear the real-time feedback to
these
> parameter changes.
>
> You really have me rubbing my chin on a few design changes. My
planned
pivot
> is 67deg and my wheelbase is 49.7" so I seem to be in the
neighborhood as
is
> but my seat height *is* 10". Those rod ends sound so nice
(adjustable)
> though that I might switch to them too rather than slog on with the
(fixed)
> bearings and get some tunability at the same time.
>
> As one scientist I used to work would often say (about theoretical
feedback)
> "I never argue with actual measurments" :-) Keep it coming!!
>
> Cheers
> Daryl
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