Re: the plug-in

  • From: Justin Daubenmire <jdaubenmire@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2010 08:47:19 -0500

Hi again,

I am the one leading up the addin project. I am assuming people on
list know of my background but maybe that assumption is incorrect. So
I will explain some of my qualifications but not to toot my own horn,
I just want folks to understand my qualifications for heading up this

I have worked as a professional programmer for over 12 years now using
all microsoft technologies.

I am a Microsoft Certified Application Developer MCAD which means I am
certified in microsoft programming technologies and hopefully I know
my stuff *grin*.

I bring a wealth of programming experience to the table ranging from
software engineer skills, technical documentation skills, database
skills, jaws scripting skills, and understand accessibility in

I have worked in the roles of project manager, programming manager,
and currently am a consultent/trainer who coaches programmers on how
to use agile methods to develop software.

I have worked under waterfall development and agile development methodologies.

I own and operate two software companies of my own and

Do I know everything? No way! However, I have enough experience to
head up this project.

For more information on my technical qualifications, please visit my
linked in page found here:

Again, to be clear, I am only stating this information so that anyone
new on the list who does not know me can gain an understanding of who
I am and what skills I can offer to this project.

Thanks all for reading and sorry my post was so long!


> For you Nubes: Ken, Jamal and a fellow named Will Pearson were some of the
> movers and shakers behind the design and development of the JAWS VS Studio
> scripts. We are talking about a quite professional and leading group of
> programmers. There were others who also had input into the project, I think
> Sina and a couple of other familiar names might have been involved in the
> early days of Blue Sky Design. Will was from over in England and, I think,
> completed his PHD over there. Oh ya, he was a sighted Microsoft VIP as well
> and provided much information about Visual Studio and related accessibility
> issues. He has moved on into other things involving Artificial Intelligence
> the last I heard. Jamal has become one of the leading experts  on
> implementing scripts for WindowEyes and JAWS for VS me thinks. Ken is
> around, was another top designer and Programmer for the scripts and has done
> some work on them when needed. They did all this around 5 or 6 years ago and
> they have all pretty much moved on to build lives outside the VS and JAWS
> scripting project from what I've seen. Therefore it is incumbant on newer
> Programmers to pick up the ball. That is, if there are any new Programmers
> with the drive, intellegence, experience and time to  create the next level
> of accessibility for the MS VS environment. That said, I'm not sure any
> exist from the posts I've seen over the past few years. If there are any
> with the necessary skill set they are likely employed in full time jobs or
> full time school and may not have the time to dedicate to such a project.
> The original group were quite a team of advanced, well educated and
> experienced professionals so it will be hard to duplicate that process me
> thinks. Modifying their scripts may be the easiest and most productive
> method of getting VS 2010 accessible - at least until WindowEyes comes out
> with their new version of their scripting model and we can see what hooks
> into VS DOM stuff they will provide.
> That said, go get em programmers! You can do it if you are dedicated enough
> and have the time to dedicate to such a project. It would be well worth
> while if your code blocks last at least say one decade and those folks
> getting involved can project having time to maintain their code for that
> length of time. That way folks who take a job or start a long-term education
> geared twoard programming, and VS in particular, will have some security
> that they will not lose their jobs or have to drop their major at University
> because VS changes it's accessibility methodology and the plugin or scripts
> can not be easily enough adopted to the new environment. I am not against
> the helpful nature expressed but some day there needs to be a real
> commitment to help support blind professionals so they can count on
> accessibility without worrying about changes to their work environments
> related to VS versioning causing them to lose their jobs.
> If they rely on free, volunteers, then they are not being independent and,
> again, relying on the charity of others which often breaks down with time
> and resources.
> If I were in the Business I would be glad to pay a few hundred each year to
> have my job secure and if there are enough blind Programmers the income
> wmight be enough to have a part-time Accessibility Programmer dedicated to a
> project of this type within some current quality Software development
> company. For those of us who use the Express modules, modifications to the
> original JAWS Scripts and, or, WindowEyes will have to do and can work quite
> well as we have seen with what the original JAWS Scripting Gang have
> demonstrated.
> Again, it is not practile nor fair to rely on any single individual nor
> group of individuals to put in the time necessary to do something of this
> magnitude. I see all the posts asking the creators of the JAWS scripts to
> tweak them, help install or configure them and now to enhance and upgrade
> them to work with an entirely new Accessibility Environment as well as new
> tough features like WPF, Silverlight and others - it is just not fair andI
> have seen pretty much nobody jump in and replace their efforts to continue
> the process of making Microsoft Visual Studio and related products more
> accessible. 5 years now and where is the new group to take over the reigns
> from ythe original developers of the free Scripts? Those who might want to
> do not have the skill set, those who have the skill set do not have the
> time - same old, same old.
> It is just the way Supply and Demand work time or money in this case for
> skilled professionals trying to finish an education or make a living in the
> real world - unlike this old fat blind hobbiest.
> Rick USA
> Rick USA
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ken Perry" <whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 7:15 AM
> Subject: RE: the plug-in
>> The reason they only have basic support is the same reason it has never
>> really worked well.  If you call FS they don't support it at all. We are
>> the
>> ones that wrote the scripts those of us on this list.  The Jaws scripts
>> can
>> easily fix the text editor if you have time to do it.
>> Ken
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Justin
>> Daubenmire
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 1:50 AM
>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Cc: program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: Re: the plug-in
>> Hi all,
>> The reason I opted to go the plug-in/Addin route was because jaws
>> version 12 support of WPF and UI Automation is in the early
>> trial/error phases. This potentially means that scripting jaws may not
>> be the quickest route to getting reliable support into vs 2010 for
>> people who need it fast for work or college. More than likely this is
>> why fs only has basic support for the code editor currently in vs
>> 2010. The addin would bring reliable speech to jaws and perhaps other
>> screen readers if others would want to join the project and program
>> the support into the addin project. That would be awesome! The addin
>> does not have to be just for jaws, it could be for any screen reader
>> if enough volunteers contribute.
>> /Justin
>> On 11/16/10, The Elf <inthaneelf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> its been discussed but I don't think it's gotten very far.
>>> I think ken Perry poked into it some and decided that the 2008 ones could
>> be
>>> reconfigured easy enough but that was the last I herd of it.
>>> inthane
>>> Moderator, Blind Access Help
>>> Owner: Alacorn Computer Enterprises
>>> Specialists in customized computers and peripherals
>>> - own the might and majesty of a Alacorn!
>>> proprietor, The Grab Bag,
>>> for blind computer users and programmers
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Justin Daubenmire" <jdaubenmire@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 9:10 AM
>>> Subject: Re: Qiestopm Re: the plug-in
>>>> Hi guys,
>>>> Is there already a vs 2010 plug-in being developed? If yes, I was
>>>> unaware of it and perhaps we can join our efforts.
>>>> Please let me know.
>>>> Thanks!
>>>> /Justin
>>>> On 11/16/10, Alex Coleman <AlexC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>> Likewise.
>>>>> I am interested in accessibility of VS 2010 Professional, as that is
>>>>> what we have adopted here.
>>>>> From: Mark Matthews [mailto:mark.matthews53@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 11:17 AM
>>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Subject: Qiestopm Re: the plug-in
>>>>> I'd thought I'd start a new thread as this is to do with the plug-in,
>>>>> but not related to Justin's project.
>>>>>  Apologies if this is rather elementary, but could someone explain, or
>>>>> point me to information about how the plug-in actually works, and I'm
>>>>> also curious as to why it only works with the Professional version -
>>>>> would I be on the right lines by assuming the utility uses components
>>>>> which aren't present in the Express?
>>>>> Also, I'd like to take the opportunity to thank the team for there
>>>>> excellent work on the 2005/2008 scripts. After much fiddling round, I
>>>>> got VS2008 express functioning fully from the ISO installation. I doubt
>>>>> very much if I'll ever reach even half the standard of Programmer as
>>>>> some of the list members, never the less its always been a subject that
>>>>> I've been interested in, and I'm thinking no knowledge is wasted
>>>>> knowledge.
>>>>> Mark
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