RE: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was: NVDA new voice?
- From: "Client Services" <operations@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 14:18:01 -0500
The difference is, if you never purchased jaws, there was no license
purchased. And elequoence does not bundle with NVDA.
So, if you bought something already that has elequoence... you should be
fine.
H.R. Soltani
-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Homme, James
Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 2:07 PM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was: NVDA new
voice?
Hi Elf,
You might want to see this page.
http://www.nvda-project.org/wiki/FreeSpeechSynthesizerList
Jim Homme,
Usability Services,
Phone: 412-544-1810. Skype: jim.homme
Internal recipients, Read my accessibility blog. Discuss accessibility
here. Accessibility Wiki: Breaking news and accessibility advice
-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of The Elf
Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 1:52 PM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was: NVDA new
voice?
that's what I thought, thank you
elf
Moderator, Blind Access Help
Owner: Alacorn Computer Enterprises
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis Clark" <dennisgclark@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2010 8:20 PM
Subject: Re: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was: NVDA new
voice?
> Hello,
> What you are proposing is not illegal. I am a lawyer, so if a lawyer on
> the list would care to discuss in what way this is illegal, please present
> your legal analysis.
> Best,
> Dennis
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "black ares" <matematicianu2003@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2010 8:00 PM
> Subject: Re: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was: NVDA new
> voice?
>
>
>>I didn't even copied the file:)
>> At installation time, my software detects if jaws is installed.
>> If it is, I simply link to that path.
>> But if you say that it is ilegal, I will delete that portion of code.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Client Services" <operations@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2010 8:53 PM
>> Subject: RE: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was: NVDA new
>> voice?
>>
>>
>>>I did not realize there were issues with using elequoence on my computer
>>> with other screen readers! Especially since I paid so much for the
>>> synthesizer and the screen reader. Never saw any licensing text for
>>> eloquence. I disagree that it is illegal to use elequoence software on
>>> a
>>> computer which is also running jaws or some other software that it is
>>> bundled with. Now I am not a lawyer, but software is generally
>>> controled by
>>> the number of computers not the software you can use with it... is this
>>> not
>>> correct? Does anybody have the licensing text for elequoence?
>>> googled eloquence and NVDA and found this link:
>>> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3349789/eloquen . 20nvda.exe
>>> And there was some very clear instructions telling me to copy the files
>>> in
>>> some folder called synthdrive or something like that on both my programs
>>> files/nvda folder and the one under appdata/roming/nvda
>>> So then I erased the nVDA.ini file and when i loaded NVDA, I found a
>>> choice
>>> of ECI above my other choices under synthesizer.
>>> This post and topic is on audiogames.net. And has not been removed. I
>>> have
>>> to assume it is at least a gray area.
>>> NVDA is quite an amazing program and I would figure there should be some
>>> better voices than the one it comes with. I am most certainly donating
>>> to
>>> the NVDA project as I really needed a good portable screen reader and
>>> backup
>>> for Jaws that did not cost me an arm and a leg. In fact, just a few
>>> minutes
>>> a go, I had loaded a program, where NVDA could detect the check boxes
>>> for
>>> options and Jaws could not. I unloaded jaws and loaded NVDA.
>>> NVDA is just fantastic and I truly love the idea of an open source
>>> screen
>>> reader.
>>> I am certain that the next time Jaws offers a paid upgrade or trys to
>>> get
>>> some money out of me, I will switch to NVDA permanently.
>>> I normally never do this. In fact, I have never done this online. But
>>> open
>>> source software for the blind is very critical. We need to get costs
>>> lowered and help more people get the tools to survive and prosper! If
>>> each
>>> of us would even just contribute $5 to $50, we could really help people
>>> who
>>> are trying to make a difference.
>>> Please help NVDA in any way you can.
>>> There website is: http://www.nvda-project.org/
>>> I will contribute $20 myself.
>>>
>>>
>>> H.R. Soltani
>>>
>>>
>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: Re: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was: NVDA new
>>> voice?
>>>
>>> I can't really agree with them doing whatever they want since they sold
>>> it. Look at jaws; many can't afford the prices, and there would be a lot
>>> less cracks and a lot more people paying if they had a better business
>>> moddle that didn't include scruing their customers out of lots of money.
>>> I would not mind at all paying $5,$20 etc for eloquence and the right to
>>> use it with NVDA, but the whole "you just can't use it," is pathetic.
>>> On 11/21/2010 10:22 AM, Stefan Moisei wrote:
>>>> Basically, he doesn't like the fact that eloquence is sold with the
>>>> right to be used only by the application it is bundled with. He things
>>>> nuance doesnt loose anything if other applications are allowed to use
>>>> eloquence as well.
>>>> I personally don't agree and think any company is allowed to sell its
>>>> software with any license they want.
>>>>
>>>> AS for legal eloquence with nvda, the only option I know about is
>>>> penvda, a u3 usb stick with nvda on it, wihch costs around 100 euros,
>>>> way above $100.
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Littlefield, Tyler"
>>>> <tyler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2010 6:55 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was: NVDA
>>>> new voice?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I have no idea what black ares said in his messsage. From what I
>>>>> gather, something about 5 dollars... Is there a paid version of
>>>>> eloquence? I know there's voxen for *nix is $5. I'd be willing to pay
>>>>> the same to be able to use it with NVDA on windows.
>>>>> On 11/20/2010 9:43 AM, Stefan Moisei wrote:
>>>>>> It's quite simple, in my view.
>>>>>> Eci's license says that eci can be used only with the application it
>>>>>> is distributed with. Period.
>>>>>> When those guys from NVDA did what you said, i.e. they made an nvda
>>>>>> eci driver without embedding eci itself, they were contacted by IBM,
>>>>>> makers of home page reader, an app which had eloquence in it. IBM
>>>>>> requested NVAccess to remove the driver, and so they did.
>>>>>> If IBM was right or not, I can't say. I personally believe that they
>>>>>> were, I think IBM read carefully the license before contacting
>>>>>> NVAccess.
>>>>>> The license may be different for jaws, but I don't think that
>>>>>> either. It seems eloquence is sold to a developer and only that
>>>>>> developer has the right to use the synth.
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "black ares"
>>>>>> <matematicianu2003@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2010 6:18 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was: NVDA
>>>>>> new voice?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So let talk about the case:
>>>>>>> I bought Jaws.
>>>>>>> Jaws came with elocuence.
>>>>>>> I Make a software that interfaces with eci and speaks trough that
>>>>>>> interface.
>>>>>>> My program has no eci or elocuence in it.
>>>>>>> It simply uses what is on the computer.
>>>>>>> If the user has let say jaws, ok it has elocuence so my software
>>>>>>> speaks.
>>>>>>> If the user has not jaws, there is no ECI and that is, my software
>>>>>>> can not speak using eci.
>>>>>>> So the one who sells Jaws with elocuence is not afected, because,
>>>>>>> to use my software with elocuence, the user must have or buy
>>>>>>> elocuence separately so pay that money.
>>>>>>> Where is the problem here?
>>>>>>> I don't see where the elocuence team loose!
>>>>>>> So back to your example, if using your software needs that game to
>>>>>>> be installed so to be boght from me, there is no reason to be un
>>>>>>> happy.
>>>>>>> The model you describe here is that, if I buy jaws with elocuence I
>>>>>>> pay 5 dolar for elocuence
>>>>>>> But if I wana use elocuence in my application I must pay Elocuence
>>>>>>> another 5 dolar, so I pay twice for same code.
>>>>>>> I know that they don't sell code, but rights to use the code and
>>>>>>> that is what I don't like.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Trouble"
>>>>>>> <trouble1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2010 4:46 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was: NVDA
>>>>>>> new voice?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The reason its illegal, is because the programmer of the software.
>>>>>>>> Put code in that software to allow its use with another piece of
>>>>>>>> software., and they paid for that right. now just because that
>>>>>>>> software comes with another chunk of software. Does not give you
>>>>>>>> the right to use it, because you didn't pay for it. To keep that
>>>>>>>> software billable. The program uses special code that lets what
>>>>>>>> ever software that wants to use it the right, but has to be paid.
>>>>>>>> Its all about money and that chunk of software is not free.
>>>>>>>> if you wrote a score keeper for a friends game say football. Now
>>>>>>>> it works great and he gave you $10. Now both are happy and you
>>>>>>>> have the thought that you can get $10 for that code. now lets say
>>>>>>>> me and a few other programmers take that code. use it in our own
>>>>>>>> games and sell those games. now wouldn't you feel like you get
>>>>>>>> your $10 too? When we give you nothing and act like the code was
>>>>>>>> free, because it came with another game?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> At 08:57 AM 11/20/2010, you wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I don't understand why, If I have a legal copy of eci, together
>>>>>>>>> with jaws,
>>>>>>>>> I am not allowed to use it from another screen reader If I have
>>>>>>>>> the possibility.
>>>>>>>>> So I write the program, I don't embed any kind of synth in it,
>>>>>>>>> but I search on the target machine what synths are there and I
>>>>>>>>> try to use one of them
>>>>>>>>> I don't understand why this is ilegal...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stefan Moisei"
>>>>>>>>> <vortex37@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2010 3:17 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was:
>>>>>>>>> NVDA new voice?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Here's what the NVDA devs have to say about the subject:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org/blog/NVDAAndEloquenceSituation
>>>>>>>>>> So, using eci api from another program if you don't distribute a
>>>>>>>>>> licensed
>>>>>>>>>> version of eloquence with it is illegal, it seems. It doesn't
>>>>>>>>>> matter that
>>>>>>>>>> the specs are freely available on the web.
>>>>>>>>>> Btw, that NVDA driver for eloquence really exists, but it is
>>>>>>>>>> illegal, so it
>>>>>>>>>> is not supported by the developers.
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "QuentinC"
>>>>>>>>>> <quentinc@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2010 1:31 AM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: NVDA new voice?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I've also heard whispers of an eloquence thing floating around
>>>>>>>>>>>> for it,
>>>>>>>>>>> but I'm not sure if that's legal or if someone can give it to
>>>>>>>>>>> you.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I read somewhere that using eloquence outside of jaws or talks
>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>> actually illegal. I don't know if it is really true. That point
>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>> really be clarified, perhaps in a separate thread, but the
>>>>>>>>>>> topic is
>>>>>>>>>>> interesting.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Additionnal question: if eloquence is already installed on a
>>>>>>>>>>> system, it's
>>>>>>>>>>> quite easy to open the DLL and start to use the functions.
>>>>>>>>>>> Documentation
>>>>>>>>>>> on this DLL is even available on the web. Is that illegal ?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I really wish that eloquence would be easily available in NVDA,
>>>>>>>>>>> definitely legally. Because espeak is... how to say... terrific.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> __________
>>>>>>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
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>>>>>>>>> __________
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tim
>>>>>>>> trouble
>>>>>>>> Verizon FIOS support tech
>>>>>>>> "Never offend people with style when you can offend them with
>>>>>>>> substance."
>>>>>>>> --Sam Brown
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Blindeudora list owner.
>>>>>>>> To subscribe or info: //www.freelists.org/webpage/blindeudora
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Ty
>>>>>
>>>>> __________
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>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Ty
>>>
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