RE: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was: NVDA new voice?
- From: "Client Services" <operations@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 22:02:30 -0500
The link should be:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3349789/eloquen . 20nvda.exe
The website I got it from is:
http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?id=3151&p=3
H.R. Soltani
-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Howard Traxler
Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 9:56 PM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was: NVDA new
voice?
Thanks, but: the link you provide in your e-mail doesn't take me anywhere.
I tried pasting the two lines together and taking out the spaces near the
end and I tried finishing the word "eloquen" but can't seem to guess
correctly. Any suggestions? Thanks again.
Howard
----- Original Message -----
From: "Client Services" <operations@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 8:46 PM
Subject: RE: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was: NVDA new
voice?
> These are the instructions I read from AudioGames.net.
>
> 1. Download: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3349789/eloquen . 20nvda.exe
> 2. Extract the files.
> 3. Put the files in the program files/nvda/synthDrivers folder it may be
> under program files-x86
> 4. Also put the files in the /users/xxx/appdata/roming/nvda/synthDrivers
> 5. Start NVDA and you should have it as your first synthesizer choice
> above
> Espeak. If you don't, you may have to delete the NVDA ini file under
> appdata/roming/NVDA
> 6. If you do not see the directory under your user folder, you may need to
> show hidden files/folders.
>
>
> H.R. Soltani
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Howard Traxler
> Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 9:28 PM
> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was: NVDA new
> voice?
>
> So here we are: I have jaws and nvda on my netbook. When I look aat the
> list of synths in nvda, I don't see eloquence in there. How do I tell
> nvda
> that it's on the machine?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Howard
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Client Services" <operations@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 1:18 PM
> Subject: RE: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was: NVDA new
> voice?
>
>
>> The difference is, if you never purchased jaws, there was no license
>> purchased. And elequoence does not bundle with NVDA.
>> So, if you bought something already that has elequoence... you should be
>> fine.
>>
>> H.R. Soltani
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Homme, James
>> Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 2:07 PM
>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: RE: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was: NVDA new
>> voice?
>>
>> Hi Elf,
>> You might want to see this page.
>>
>> http://www.nvda-project.org/wiki/FreeSpeechSynthesizerList
>>
>> Jim Homme,
>> Usability Services,
>> Phone: 412-544-1810. Skype: jim.homme
>> Internal recipients, Read my accessibility blog. Discuss accessibility
>> here. Accessibility Wiki: Breaking news and accessibility advice
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of The Elf
>> Sent: Monday, November 22, 2010 1:52 PM
>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: Re: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was: NVDA new
>> voice?
>>
>> that's what I thought, thank you
>>
>> elf
>> Moderator, Blind Access Help
>> Owner: Alacorn Computer Enterprises
>> Specialists in customized computers and peripherals
>> - own the might and majesty of a Alacorn!
>> www.alacorncomputer.com
>> proprietor, The Grab Bag,
>> for blind computer users and programmers
>> http://grabbag.alacorncomputer.com
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Dennis Clark" <dennisgclark@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2010 8:20 PM
>> Subject: Re: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was: NVDA new
>> voice?
>>
>>
>>> Hello,
>>> What you are proposing is not illegal. I am a lawyer, so if a lawyer on
>>> the list would care to discuss in what way this is illegal, please
>>> present
>>> your legal analysis.
>>> Best,
>>> Dennis
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "black ares" <matematicianu2003@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2010 8:00 PM
>>> Subject: Re: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was: NVDA new
>>> voice?
>>>
>>>
>>>>I didn't even copied the file:)
>>>> At installation time, my software detects if jaws is installed.
>>>> If it is, I simply link to that path.
>>>> But if you say that it is ilegal, I will delete that portion of code.
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Client Services" <operations@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2010 8:53 PM
>>>> Subject: RE: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was: NVDA new
>>>> voice?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I did not realize there were issues with using elequoence on my
>>>>>computer
>>>>> with other screen readers! Especially since I paid so much for the
>>>>> synthesizer and the screen reader. Never saw any licensing text for
>>>>> eloquence. I disagree that it is illegal to use elequoence software
>>>>> on
>>>>> a
>>>>> computer which is also running jaws or some other software that it is
>>>>> bundled with. Now I am not a lawyer, but software is generally
>>>>> controled by
>>>>> the number of computers not the software you can use with it... is
>>>>> this
>>>>> not
>>>>> correct? Does anybody have the licensing text for elequoence?
>>>>> googled eloquence and NVDA and found this link:
>>>>> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3349789/eloquen . 20nvda.exe
>>>>> And there was some very clear instructions telling me to copy the
>>>>> files
>>>>> in
>>>>> some folder called synthdrive or something like that on both my
>>>>> programs
>>>>> files/nvda folder and the one under appdata/roming/nvda
>>>>> So then I erased the nVDA.ini file and when i loaded NVDA, I found a
>>>>> choice
>>>>> of ECI above my other choices under synthesizer.
>>>>> This post and topic is on audiogames.net. And has not been removed.
>>>>> I
>>>>> have
>>>>> to assume it is at least a gray area.
>>>>> NVDA is quite an amazing program and I would figure there should be
>>>>> some
>>>>> better voices than the one it comes with. I am most certainly
>>>>> donating
>>>>> to
>>>>> the NVDA project as I really needed a good portable screen reader and
>>>>> backup
>>>>> for Jaws that did not cost me an arm and a leg. In fact, just a few
>>>>> minutes
>>>>> a go, I had loaded a program, where NVDA could detect the check boxes
>>>>> for
>>>>> options and Jaws could not. I unloaded jaws and loaded NVDA.
>>>>> NVDA is just fantastic and I truly love the idea of an open source
>>>>> screen
>>>>> reader.
>>>>> I am certain that the next time Jaws offers a paid upgrade or trys to
>>>>> get
>>>>> some money out of me, I will switch to NVDA permanently.
>>>>> I normally never do this. In fact, I have never done this online.
>>>>> But
>>>>> open
>>>>> source software for the blind is very critical. We need to get costs
>>>>> lowered and help more people get the tools to survive and prosper! If
>>>>> each
>>>>> of us would even just contribute $5 to $50, we could really help
>>>>> people
>>>>> who
>>>>> are trying to make a difference.
>>>>> Please help NVDA in any way you can.
>>>>> There website is: http://www.nvda-project.org/
>>>>> I will contribute $20 myself.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> H.R. Soltani
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Subject: Re: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was: NVDA
>>>>> new
>>>>> voice?
>>>>>
>>>>> I can't really agree with them doing whatever they want since they
>>>>> sold
>>>>> it. Look at jaws; many can't afford the prices, and there would be a
>>>>> lot
>>>>> less cracks and a lot more people paying if they had a better business
>>>>> moddle that didn't include scruing their customers out of lots of
>>>>> money.
>>>>> I would not mind at all paying $5,$20 etc for eloquence and the right
>>>>> to
>>>>> use it with NVDA, but the whole "you just can't use it," is pathetic.
>>>>> On 11/21/2010 10:22 AM, Stefan Moisei wrote:
>>>>>> Basically, he doesn't like the fact that eloquence is sold with the
>>>>>> right to be used only by the application it is bundled with. He
>>>>>> things
>>>>>> nuance doesnt loose anything if other applications are allowed to use
>>>>>> eloquence as well.
>>>>>> I personally don't agree and think any company is allowed to sell its
>>>>>> software with any license they want.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> AS for legal eloquence with nvda, the only option I know about is
>>>>>> penvda, a u3 usb stick with nvda on it, wihch costs around 100 euros,
>>>>>> way above $100.
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Littlefield, Tyler"
>>>>>> <tyler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2010 6:55 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was: NVDA
>>>>>> new voice?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have no idea what black ares said in his messsage. From what I
>>>>>>> gather, something about 5 dollars... Is there a paid version of
>>>>>>> eloquence? I know there's voxen for *nix is $5. I'd be willing to
>>>>>>> pay
>>>>>>> the same to be able to use it with NVDA on windows.
>>>>>>> On 11/20/2010 9:43 AM, Stefan Moisei wrote:
>>>>>>>> It's quite simple, in my view.
>>>>>>>> Eci's license says that eci can be used only with the application
>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>> is distributed with. Period.
>>>>>>>> When those guys from NVDA did what you said, i.e. they made an
>>>>>>>> nvda
>>>>>>>> eci driver without embedding eci itself, they were contacted by
>>>>>>>> IBM,
>>>>>>>> makers of home page reader, an app which had eloquence in it. IBM
>>>>>>>> requested NVAccess to remove the driver, and so they did.
>>>>>>>> If IBM was right or not, I can't say. I personally believe that
>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>> were, I think IBM read carefully the license before contacting
>>>>>>>> NVAccess.
>>>>>>>> The license may be different for jaws, but I don't think that
>>>>>>>> either. It seems eloquence is sold to a developer and only that
>>>>>>>> developer has the right to use the synth.
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "black ares"
>>>>>>>> <matematicianu2003@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2010 6:18 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was: NVDA
>>>>>>>> new voice?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So let talk about the case:
>>>>>>>>> I bought Jaws.
>>>>>>>>> Jaws came with elocuence.
>>>>>>>>> I Make a software that interfaces with eci and speaks trough that
>>>>>>>>> interface.
>>>>>>>>> My program has no eci or elocuence in it.
>>>>>>>>> It simply uses what is on the computer.
>>>>>>>>> If the user has let say jaws, ok it has elocuence so my software
>>>>>>>>> speaks.
>>>>>>>>> If the user has not jaws, there is no ECI and that is, my
>>>>>>>>> software
>>>>>>>>> can not speak using eci.
>>>>>>>>> So the one who sells Jaws with elocuence is not afected, because,
>>>>>>>>> to use my software with elocuence, the user must have or buy
>>>>>>>>> elocuence separately so pay that money.
>>>>>>>>> Where is the problem here?
>>>>>>>>> I don't see where the elocuence team loose!
>>>>>>>>> So back to your example, if using your software needs that game to
>>>>>>>>> be installed so to be boght from me, there is no reason to be un
>>>>>>>>> happy.
>>>>>>>>> The model you describe here is that, if I buy jaws with elocuence
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> pay 5 dolar for elocuence
>>>>>>>>> But if I wana use elocuence in my application I must pay Elocuence
>>>>>>>>> another 5 dolar, so I pay twice for same code.
>>>>>>>>> I know that they don't sell code, but rights to use the code and
>>>>>>>>> that is what I don't like.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Trouble"
>>>>>>>>> <trouble1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2010 4:46 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was:
>>>>>>>>> NVDA
>>>>>>>>> new voice?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The reason its illegal, is because the programmer of the
>>>>>>>>>> software.
>>>>>>>>>> Put code in that software to allow its use with another piece of
>>>>>>>>>> software., and they paid for that right. now just because that
>>>>>>>>>> software comes with another chunk of software. Does not give you
>>>>>>>>>> the right to use it, because you didn't pay for it. To keep that
>>>>>>>>>> software billable. The program uses special code that lets what
>>>>>>>>>> ever software that wants to use it the right, but has to be paid.
>>>>>>>>>> Its all about money and that chunk of software is not free.
>>>>>>>>>> if you wrote a score keeper for a friends game say football. Now
>>>>>>>>>> it works great and he gave you $10. Now both are happy and you
>>>>>>>>>> have the thought that you can get $10 for that code. now lets say
>>>>>>>>>> me and a few other programmers take that code. use it in our own
>>>>>>>>>> games and sell those games. now wouldn't you feel like you get
>>>>>>>>>> your $10 too? When we give you nothing and act like the code was
>>>>>>>>>> free, because it came with another game?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> At 08:57 AM 11/20/2010, you wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> I don't understand why, If I have a legal copy of eci, together
>>>>>>>>>>> with jaws,
>>>>>>>>>>> I am not allowed to use it from another screen reader If I have
>>>>>>>>>>> the possibility.
>>>>>>>>>>> So I write the program, I don't embed any kind of synth in it,
>>>>>>>>>>> but I search on the target machine what synths are there and I
>>>>>>>>>>> try to use one of them
>>>>>>>>>>> I don't understand why this is ilegal...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stefan Moisei"
>>>>>>>>>>> <vortex37@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2010 3:17 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: eloquence outside programs it is embedded in was:
>>>>>>>>>>> NVDA new voice?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Here's what the NVDA devs have to say about the subject:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org/blog/NVDAAndEloquenceSituation
>>>>>>>>>>>> So, using eci api from another program if you don't distribute
>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>> licensed
>>>>>>>>>>>> version of eloquence with it is illegal, it seems. It doesn't
>>>>>>>>>>>> matter that
>>>>>>>>>>>> the specs are freely available on the web.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Btw, that NVDA driver for eloquence really exists, but it is
>>>>>>>>>>>> illegal, so it
>>>>>>>>>>>> is not supported by the developers.
>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "QuentinC"
>>>>>>>>>>>> <quentinc@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2010 1:31 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: NVDA new voice?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've also heard whispers of an eloquence thing floating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> around
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for it,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> but I'm not sure if that's legal or if someone can give it to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I read somewhere that using eloquence outside of jaws or talks
>>>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>>> actually illegal. I don't know if it is really true. That
>>>>>>>>>>>>> point
>>>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>>>> really be clarified, perhaps in a separate thread, but the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> topic is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> interesting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Additionnal question: if eloquence is already installed on a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> system, it's
>>>>>>>>>>>>> quite easy to open the DLL and start to use the functions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Documentation
>>>>>>>>>>>>> on this DLL is even available on the web. Is that illegal ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really wish that eloquence would be easily available in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> NVDA,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> definitely legally. Because espeak is... how to say...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> terrific.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
>>>>>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> __________
>>>>>>>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
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>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> __________
>>>>>>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Tim
>>>>>>>>>> trouble
>>>>>>>>>> Verizon FIOS support tech
>>>>>>>>>> "Never offend people with style when you can offend them with
>>>>>>>>>> substance."
>>>>>>>>>> --Sam Brown
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Blindeudora list owner.
>>>>>>>>>> To subscribe or info:
>>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/webpage/blindeudora
>>>>>>>>>> __________
>>>>>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
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>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> Ty
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> __________
>>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________
>>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Ty
>>>>>
>>>>> __________
>>>>> View the list's information and change your settings at
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