Re: Text Adventure Resources, PHP4 Criticism (Was: Is there a program that will let me create text adventures?)

  • From: "Marlon Brandão de Sousa" <splyt.lists@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 20:24:42 -0300

Agreed.
Also It is good to frise that most part of Velipeca isssues were fixed
/ implemented in php 5.
Marlon

2007/9/17, Sina Bahram <sbahram@xxxxxxxxx>:
> Php is rather well documented, and not just in .chm format.
>
> You can go to php.net followed by any name of a function, such as
>
> http://php.net/strlen
>
>
> Or, if you want a general topic, just type that, like for MySQL:
>
> http://php.net/
>
>
> I'm sure it would be trivial to integrate this into at least one of what
> seems like the hundreds of text editors that go across this list.
>
> Furthermore, it's incorrect to say a language's documentation is bad when a
> particular editor doesn't happen to support it. Those two statements are
> unrelated, as far as I'm concerned.
>
> Take care,
> Sina
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Octavian Rasnita
> Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 3:43 PM
> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: Text Adventure Resources, PHP4 Criticism (Was: Is there a
> program that will let me create text adventures?)
>
> Well, I don't think PHP has a lower security than perl (if the programmer
> knows what he does, of course).
>
> I found that PHP's syntax is very closed to perl's syntax, but it is just
> much less developed than perl's.
>
> For example, you could include an array element or a hash element in a
> quoted string without needing to use additional params for letting the
> language know that it is a separate element that should be replaced with its
> value.
>
> Then in very many fields perl is better not because of the core language,
> but because there are much developed modules. And I am thinking for example
> to the list of frameworks that can be used in perl, the templating systems
> and what they can do, the ORM libraries, and other things. I am also
> thinking that perl can be used to create programs with a graphical interface
> usable on Windows or portable on more operating systems, using Win32::GUI,
> Tk, GTK, WXPerl...
>
> Perl also has disadvantages. For example, the perl programmers tend to not
> care about other languages and the libraries they use if what they do can be
> done better in perl in another way.
> And this is a disadvantage, because some of those libraries could be used
> for interaction between programs made in different languages or platforms.
> Perl can use SOAP, but the XML used by its SOAP is not fully compatible with
> the one used by .net or Java. Most perl programmers don't care about this,
> because they say that there are other protocols of communication much better
> than SOAP, and this might be true, but this is not important if all the
> others got used to use SOAP.
>
> On the other side, PHP copies everything it can from all the languages
> including perl and offer those facilities as built in functions and it tries
> to follow more closely the "fashion" of the web.
>
> PHP is much better than perl for creating small web sites, because it is
> easier to do it in PHP than in perl, however for bigger web sites, that kind
> of web sites that are ran by the system administrator, not on a shared web
> host, perl is better. However, of course, there are much more small web
> sites that just require PHP, Apache and MySQL.
>
> Regarding the documentation, I think PHP has a horrible documentation
> comparing it with perl's one.
>
> If I don't know how to use a certain function or method from a perl module
> or a built in function, I just need to press Control+Shift+E in TextPad,
> type the function or module name and press enter, and the documentation for
> that module or function is printed in a newly created window, and I can read
> it just like any other text.
> And then I can read that is that module used for, which are all the method
> names from it, which are their syntax, but *with examples always* and I can
> even copy and paste some lines of code from there for using them in the
> program.
>
> PHP has a nice CHM and I like that format, but it displays a huge number of
> types of functions, then another huge list of functions for each type, and
> it takes a long time to find what I want even if I search the CHM. But this
> is not the most important thing. What I don't like is the fact that PHP
> doesn't give examples, but gives a technical general example, using for
> example [ and ] for including the optional parameters and it is very hard to
> follow if there are more optional parts and especially in cases when if an
> optional parameter is used, another should be also used...
> Perl's documentation gives an example for each possible situation, showing
> how to access the function without parameters, with only one, with 2, with 3
> and so on, or if there are more, it gives only some examples then describe
> in detail in below.
>
> Perl has a stronger support for Unicode (even some libraries like Win32::GUI
> don't support Unicode at all).
>
> The advantage of PHP is that all the modules are compiled, and the admin
> doesn't need to compile the modules in C on the local machine in order to be
> able to use them, so the admin doesn't need to be the system administrator.
> Well, of course perl can be installed by another simple user than root, then
> compile and install anything he wants, but it is still more complicated to
> do that than just using the language.
> The advantage of perl is that it is more flexible, and if the programmer
> knows what he does, he could install other external libraries and perl
> modules that work with them, and can do much more things than a PHP
> programmer can do with PHP.
>
> So none of them is "better" than the other. Each one is best for some
> things.
>
> Octavian
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Marlon Brandão de Sousa" <splyt.lists@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Monday, September 17, 2007 7:25 PM
> Subject: Re: Text Adventure Resources, PHP4 Criticism (Was: Is there a
> program that will let me create text adventures?)
>
>
> Helo,
> I read this thread now and do understand your points in telling php is a
> little bad thought out. I have to say you that php 5 is better.
> I personally don't like perl sintax style and, if there is a library that
> will require me to turn on safety critical stuff, I won't use them. Although
> I can understand your points, I also agree that I won't use the bad things
> of the language. So I don't think that php is this bad, although it has its
> weaknesses like any other language. I like the php documentation and the way
> php comunities behave when a new programmer needs help.
> Also I found the errors pretty clear to understand and fix.
> Marlon
>
> 2007/9/17, Veli-Pekka Tätilä <vtatila@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:
> > Hi alex,
> > For text adventures, there are frameworks, class libraries and parsers
> > that are hard to beat. Inform the bytecode of whose Infocom used in
> > their Zork adventures, among others:
> >
> > http://www.inform-fiction.org/I7/Welcome.html
> >
> > Tads 3 is more object-oriented and advanced:
> >
> > http://www.tads.org/tads3.htm
> >
> > If you don't like writing code some good adventures have also been
> > created using Adrift:
> >
> > http://www.adrift.org.uk/cgi/new/adrift.cgi
> >
> > For what has been done with these tools try:
> >
> > www.ifarchive.org
> >
> > and
> >
> > http://www.sparkynet.com/spag/
> >
> > For quirky game ideas and a whole lot of links go here:
> >
> > http://emshort.wordpress.com/reading-if/
> >
> > I wouldn't necessarily use PHP for Webby adventure development unless
> > you already know that. I've never personally liked the language for
> > many many reasons and writing a parser from scratch is basically
> > wasted effort unless you count learning and the fun of coding
> > something from scratch.
> >
> > Here's what I hate in PHP:
> >
> > * Overly friendly but inexact docs, that is behavior in error
> > conditions not well specified and tone not K&R:ishly formal even if it
> > would be beneficial.
> >
> > * OOP system is very weak in PHP 4, and not extendably minimalist as
> > in Perl 5, for instance.
> >
> > * Only one aggregate data type that blends hash and array access. Hard
> > to tell whether it only contains ints and it seems both the advantages
> > of hashes and arrays are lost. You cannot index non-integer types
> > quite as fast as pointer arithmetic yet the PHP arrays are ordered and
> > hash-like, despite a hashtable being inherently unordered. That's just
> > strange, conceptually, and probably not very efficient.
> >
> > * Syntax is C-like, reference semantics have not been well specified
> > or at least I've never understood them, and the compiler errors often
> > sound like they're straiht from some automatic tools . That is, full
> > of obscure symbols.
> >
> > * Bloated class library at least in php4. There's redundant
> > convenience in places, without the facilities to generalize using
> > callbacks or extra args, and naming is a horible jumble borrowing from
> > which ever language the function in question has been lifted.
> >
> > * PHP doesn't have a good track record in security despite nifty hacks
> > like magic quotes. One bad thing is autovivifying variables based on
> > URl parameters, if I may use the Perl lingo here. That can cause quite
> > bad security issues, if I've understood things correctly, but some PHP
> > libs require that the feature is on.
> >
> > What are the advantages, really, apart from some nifty CGI
> > functionality, and easy initial configuration? It seems to be there's
> > nothing special or really interesting in PHP as a programming language.
> > NOt that such a language could not be nice for Webby stuff given good
> > libs, though.
> >
> > Note that I have only used PHP4 in a project which tried extending the
> > OS Commerce platform for a client's needs. So PHP 5 might be much
> > better and as with Perl, if you are a good coder, you don't do the
> > things that are evil, admitted.
> >
> > Still I thought I'd mention the gripes I have with the lang to
> > generate some discussions for workarounds, clarification and the
> > merits of PHP for new users. Feel free to move this to a separate thread.
> >
> > --
> > With kind regards Veli-Pekka Tätilä (vtatila@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
> > Accessibility, game music, synthesizers and programming:
> > http://www.student.oulu.fi/~vtatila
> >
> > alex wrote:
> > > Well i was just wondering if there was a program that will let me
> > > create text adventures? Or is there one for MUDS? (rpgs)?
> > __________
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> >
> >
>
>
> --
> When you say "I wrote a program that crashed Windows," people just stare at
> you blankly and say "Hey, I got those with the system, for free."
> Linus Torvalds
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-- 
When you say "I wrote a program that crashed Windows," people just
stare at you blankly and say "Hey, I got those with the system, for
free."
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