Re: Komodo
- From: james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx
- To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 07:36:01 -0500
Hi,
I can't contribute by programming either, but I did contribute by reporting
an issue that made the program less accessible. I got a report yesterday
that they took care of it. Now we can move the cursor through the output
window. As soon as I am able, I will get the fix and check it out. My view
is that you only want to contribute if you can do everything. I just proved
that you can contribute if you want to. All you have to do is change your
view of what you can do.
Thanks.
Jim
James D Homme, , Usability Engineering, Highmark Inc.,
james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx, 412-544-1810
"Never doubt that a thoughtful group of committed citizens can change the
world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead
"Octavian
Rasnita"
<orasnita@xxxxxxx To
om> programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent by: cc
programmingblind-
bounce@freelists. Subject
org Re: Commodo
11/14/2007 04:04
PM
Please respond to
programmingblind@
freelists.org
I raise my hat for open source projects, but unfortunately... I don't know
why, but the open source projects are usually less accessible than the
commercial ones.
I would do all the software I need if I would be such a good programmer,
but
unfortunately I am not, and I am not sighted to be able to do very many
things in a program, so I cannot contribute to improve and fix everything I
don't like.
So I prefer to use something else.
Octavian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jamal Mazrui" <empower@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 8:26 PM
Subject: Re: Commodo
>I think that one might consider contributing to a project even if it
> does not immediately serve oneself better than commercial alternatives.
> The idea is to help improve a free, open source IDE that uses
> technologies that were designed with accessibility in mind, even if they
> presently work imperfectly. Successful refinement of Mozilla
> components, with help from blind users and programmers, can lead to
> other accessible applications besides this particular IDE. Without
> constructive participation by people with disabilities, it is doubtful
> that such open source components, however well-intentioned, will ever
> work as smoothly and reliably as we hope.
>
> Jamal
> On Wed, 14 Nov 2007, Octavian
> Rasnita wrote:
>
>> Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 19:52:32 +0200
>> From: Octavian Rasnita <orasnita@xxxxxxxxx>
>> Reply-To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: Re: Commodo
>>
>> I've made some Jaws scripts for some programs in the past, but I've
>> stopped
>> creating scripts, because I think it would be easier to find programs
>> that
>> don't require scripts.
>>
>> I haven't found helpful things in Commodo that can't be done in TextPad,
>> but
>> I found very many helpful things that can be done in TextPad but can't
be
>> done in Commodo, and TextPad is faster and it doesn't require any Jaws
>> scripts. So why should I make the effort of creating scripts for a
>> program
>> like Commodo?
>>
>> It could be more perl-oriented than TextPad, but it has very few
features
>> that could help a little which cannot be found in other editors, so I
>> prefer
>> to wait and see if it will become better or if Jaws would work better
>> with
>> it.
>>
>> But anyway, it is still very slow and I don't like this at all.
>> I think this is an important negative point of development environments
>> like
>> Eclipse and VS.net and Commodo also has it.
>>
>> I have a Core 2 Duo at 3 GHz processor, but it starts still slow. What
>> could
>> I do to make it start as fast as TextPad?
>>
>> Octavian
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jamal Mazrui" <empower@xxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 6:45 PM
>> Subject: Re: Commodo
>>
>>
>> > It sounds like some improvements are needed in the keyboard interface.
>> > The problems you describe do not make Komodo a horrible editor.
>> > Evidently, it is a frustrating one for you so far, but it deserves an
>> > appreciation of its beneficial features as well before condemning it
as
>> > you do because of some hot key and focus issues. These issues are
>> > probably the kinds of things that a set of JAWS scripts could
>> > resolve --
>> > just as scripts smoothed some rough edges with Visual Studio, which
was
>> > mostly accessible out of the box.
>> >
>> > Here is a revolutionary concept: how about starting an open source
>> > JAWS
>> > scripting project for Komodo? Feel free to ask questions if you need
>> > tips on the JAWS scripting language, such as how to assign focus to a
>> > control or add a hot key. I'm sure you'll be able to pick up the
>> > language quickly with a little effort.
>> >
>> > Jamal
>> > On Wed, 14 Nov 2007, Octavian
>> > Rasnita wrote:
>> >
>> >> Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 17:39:08 +0200
>> >> From: Octavian Rasnita <orasnita@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >> Reply-To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> Subject: Re: Commodo
>> >>
>> >> I've seen that I can use the virtual PC cursor, however if I want to
>> >> click
>> >> on the tab title, I cannot do it with it.
>> >> And I need this because I cannot select that tab in other way.
>> >>
>> >> Here is what I've tried:
>> >>
>> >> Opened Commodo, chosen File menu/New/File then chosen perl and
pressed
>> >> enter.
>> >> Then I've modified something in the file, and pressed control+S to
>> >> save
>> >> it.
>> >> The "Save as..." dialog appeared, and I wanted to cancel it by
>> >> pressing
>> >> escape.
>> >>
>> >> In that moment the focus was lost. It didn't went to the textarea
>> >> where
>> >> it
>> >> was before pressing control+S.
>> >> So I was trying to put it back there. I've tried pressing
Control+Home
>> >> but
>> >> Jaws (8) just spoken some words, possibly the titles of some tabs, or
>> >> toolbar elements... I don't know, but the focus was not moved to any
>> >> program
>> >> element.
>> >>
>> >> So I've tried pressing Control+Tab for more times, but nothing
>> >> happend.
>> >> After switching to another application then back to Commodo, and a
few
>> >> other
>> >> control+Tab and tab keys, I've seen that I could move from a tab
title
>> >> to
>> >> another, but those tab titles were for something else, not for
>> >> selecting
>> >> the
>> >> currently open document.
>> >>
>> >> I couldn't get to those tabs, and even if I could do it, I think that
>> >> Commodo has big bugs, because otherwise it wouldn't lose the focus
>> >> that
>> >> way.
>> >> (If some list members say that it is great and that only Jaws 6 has
>> >> problems
>> >> accessing it).
>> >>
>> >> That's why I try to move the focus to the wanted tab title by
clicking
>> >> on
>> >> it
>> >> with the Jaws cursor.
>> >> But finally I was able to move the focus to the currently opened file
>> >> tab
>> >> title using F6 for more times. It was ok, however I couldn't move the
>> >> focus
>> >> from that tab title to the textarea using Control+Tab, or just tab...
>> >>
>> >> I've seen that if I have chosen to close it without saving the file,
>> >> it
>> >> asked what I wanted to do, but it didn't even offered a hotkey for
>> >> choosing
>> >> "Don't save any file"
>> >> I think that most editors allow us to just press "N" in order to
>> >> choose a
>> >> "No", and we don't need to tab for more times in order to be able to
>> >> press
>> >> that button.
>> >>
>> >> So it is not a great editor, not even with Jaws 8. Maybe 9?? Or 19?
>> >> :-)
>> >>
>> >> I like some of the ActiveState's programs if they are good, like
>> >> ActivePerl
>> >> and Perl Developer Kit, but not their inaccessible GUI ppm or
Commodo.
>> >>
>> >> Octavian
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: "James Panes" <jimpanes@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >> Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 3:53 PM
>> >> Subject: Re: Commodo
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > Hi Teddy,
>> >> >
>> >> > If you have not already been told by 10 other list members. . .
>> >> >
>> >> > Try using the invisible cursor. It can read objects on the screen
>> >> > without
>> >> > triggering them the way the JAWS cursor does.
>> >> >
>> >> > Regards,
>> >> > Jim
>> >> > jimpanes@xxxxxxxxx
>> >> > jimpanes@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> > "Everything is easy when you know how."
>> >> >
>> >> > ----- Original Message -----
>> >> > From: "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >> > To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >> > Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 12:25 PM
>> >> > Subject: Commodo
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Hi,
>> >> >
>> >> > I've installed again Jaws 8 because I heard from many of the list
>> >> > members
>> >> > that it works very well with Commodo.
>> >> > However, I found that it works not as bad as Jaws 6, but horrible
>> >> > enough.
>> >> >
>> >> > I told you about that issue that I cannot read the title of the
>> >> > currently
>> >> > opened perl file with the Jaws cursor on the tab title, because
>> >> > Commodo
>> >> > seems to pop-up a menu when I move the Jaws cursor.
>> >> >
>> >> > Well, it seems that this problem is the same with Jaws 8 as with
>> >> > Jaws
>> >> > 6.
>> >> > What were you doing to be able to do that?
>> >> >
>> >> > Thanks.
>> >> >
>> >> > Octavian
>> >> >
>> >> > __________
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