Re: Commodo

  • From: james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx
  • To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 07:38:16 -0500

Teddy,
I would like you to be less selfish.

Jim

James D Homme, , Usability Engineering, Highmark Inc.,
james.homme@xxxxxxxxxxxx, 412-544-1810

"Never doubt that a thoughtful group of committed citizens can change the
world.  Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." -- Margaret Mead



                                                                           
             "Octavian                                                     
             Rasnita"                                                      
             <orasnita@xxxxxxx                                          To 
             om>                       programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx      
             Sent by:                                                   cc 
             programmingblind-                                             
             bounce@freelists.                                     Subject 
             org                       Re: Commodo                         
                                                                           
                                                                           
             11/15/2007 01:18                                              
             AM                                                            
                                                                           
                                                                           
             Please respond to                                             
             programmingblind@                                             
               freelists.org                                               
                                                                           
                                                                           




Contribute with what? With documentation? About a project that I don't know

how to use?
With translations? For a project that I cannot use because I don't like
some
of its parts? With something else?

Most of the times I tell an open source project member that I don't like
something in their project, they tell me that if I want to improve it, I
can
contribute with code improvements, but very few are interested to improve
those bugs or features missing.
In that case, it wouldn't help me if I would contribute with documentation,

or translations, or things like that because other persons won't contribute

with the code.

Another problem is that I am not interested about a software that will be
good after a few years. I would use that software when it would be good.

Octavian

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jamal Mazrui" <empower@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 11:52 PM
Subject: Re: Commodo


> List members have described various ways of contributing besides fixing
> every problem by your own programming.  You choose not to contribute to
> open source projects.  That is your perogative, but it is not because you
> cannot.
> Jamal
> On Wed, 14 Nov 2007, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
>
>> Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 23:04:28 +0200
>> From: Octavian Rasnita <orasnita@xxxxxxxxx>
>> Reply-To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: Re: Commodo
>>
>> I raise my hat for open source projects, but unfortunately... I don't
>> know
>> why, but the open source projects are usually less accessible than the
>> commercial ones.
>>
>> I would do all the software I need if I would be such a good programmer,

>> but
>> unfortunately I am not, and I am not sighted to be able to do very many
>> things in a program, so I cannot contribute to improve and fix
everything
>> I
>> don't like.
>>
>> So I prefer to use something else.
>>
>> Octavian
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jamal Mazrui" <empower@xxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 8:26 PM
>> Subject: Re: Commodo
>>
>>
>> >I think that one might consider contributing to a project even if it
>> > does not immediately serve oneself better than commercial
alternatives.
>> > The idea is to help improve a free, open source IDE that uses
>> > technologies that were designed with accessibility in mind, even if
>> > they
>> > presently work imperfectly.  Successful refinement of Mozilla
>> > components, with help from blind users and programmers, can lead to
>> > other accessible applications besides this particular IDE.  Without
>> > constructive participation by people with disabilities, it is doubtful
>> > that such open source components, however well-intentioned, will ever
>> > work as smoothly and reliably as we hope.
>> >
>> > Jamal
>> > On Wed, 14 Nov 2007, Octavian
>> > Rasnita wrote:
>> >
>> >> Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 19:52:32 +0200
>> >> From: Octavian Rasnita <orasnita@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >> Reply-To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> Subject: Re: Commodo
>> >>
>> >> I've made some Jaws scripts for some programs in the past, but I've
>> >> stopped
>> >> creating scripts, because I think it would be easier to find programs
>> >> that
>> >> don't require scripts.
>> >>
>> >> I haven't found helpful things in Commodo that can't be done in
>> >> TextPad,
>> >> but
>> >> I found very many helpful things that can be done in TextPad but
can't
>> >> be
>> >> done in Commodo, and TextPad is faster and it doesn't require any
Jaws
>> >> scripts. So why should I make the effort of creating scripts for a
>> >> program
>> >> like Commodo?
>> >>
>> >> It could be more perl-oriented than TextPad, but it has very few
>> >> features
>> >> that could help a little which cannot be found in other editors, so I
>> >> prefer
>> >> to wait and see if it will become better or if Jaws would work better
>> >> with
>> >> it.
>> >>
>> >> But anyway, it is still very slow and I don't like this at all.
>> >> I think this is an important negative point of development
>> >> environments
>> >> like
>> >> Eclipse and VS.net and Commodo also has it.
>> >>
>> >> I have a Core 2 Duo at 3 GHz processor, but it starts still slow.
What
>> >> could
>> >> I do to make it start as fast as TextPad?
>> >>
>> >> Octavian
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: "Jamal Mazrui" <empower@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >> Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 6:45 PM
>> >> Subject: Re: Commodo
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > It sounds like some improvements are needed in the keyboard
>> >> > interface.
>> >> > The problems you describe do not make Komodo a horrible editor.
>> >> > Evidently, it is a frustrating one for you so far, but it deserves
>> >> > an
>> >> > appreciation of its beneficial features as well before condemning
it
>> >> > as
>> >> > you do because of some hot key and focus issues.  These issues are
>> >> > probably the kinds of things that a set of JAWS scripts could
>> >> > resolve --
>> >> > just as scripts smoothed some rough edges with Visual Studio, which

>> >> > was
>> >> > mostly accessible out of the box.
>> >> >
>> >> > Here is a revolutionary concept:  how about starting an open source
>> >> > JAWS
>> >> > scripting project for Komodo?  Feel free to ask questions if you
>> >> > need
>> >> > tips on the JAWS scripting language, such as how to assign focus to

>> >> > a
>> >> > control or add a hot key.  I'm sure you'll be able to pick up the
>> >> > language quickly with a little effort.
>> >> >
>> >> > Jamal
>> >> > On Wed, 14 Nov 2007, Octavian
>> >> > Rasnita wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 17:39:08 +0200
>> >> >> From: Octavian Rasnita <orasnita@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >> >> Reply-To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> >> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> >> Subject: Re: Commodo
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I've seen that I can use the virtual PC cursor, however if I want
>> >> >> to
>> >> >> click
>> >> >> on the tab title, I cannot do it with it.
>> >> >> And I need this because I cannot select that tab in other way.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Here is what I've tried:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Opened Commodo, chosen File menu/New/File then chosen perl and
>> >> >> pressed
>> >> >> enter.
>> >> >> Then I've modified something in the file, and pressed control+S to
>> >> >> save
>> >> >> it.
>> >> >> The "Save as..." dialog appeared, and I wanted to cancel it by
>> >> >> pressing
>> >> >> escape.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> In that moment the focus was lost. It didn't went to the textarea
>> >> >> where
>> >> >> it
>> >> >> was before pressing control+S.
>> >> >> So I was trying to put it back there. I've tried pressing
>> >> >> Control+Home
>> >> >> but
>> >> >> Jaws (8) just spoken some words, possibly the titles of some tabs,

>> >> >> or
>> >> >> toolbar elements... I don't know, but the focus was not moved to
>> >> >> any
>> >> >> program
>> >> >> element.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> So I've tried pressing Control+Tab for more times, but nothing
>> >> >> happend.
>> >> >> After switching to another application then back to Commodo, and a

>> >> >> few
>> >> >> other
>> >> >> control+Tab and tab keys, I've seen that I could move from a tab
>> >> >> title
>> >> >> to
>> >> >> another, but those tab titles were for something else, not for
>> >> >> selecting
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> currently open document.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I couldn't get to those tabs, and even if I could do it, I think
>> >> >> that
>> >> >> Commodo has big bugs, because otherwise it wouldn't lose the focus
>> >> >> that
>> >> >> way.
>> >> >> (If some list members say that it is great and that only Jaws 6
has
>> >> >> problems
>> >> >> accessing it).
>> >> >>
>> >> >> That's why I try to move the focus to the wanted tab title by
>> >> >> clicking
>> >> >> on
>> >> >> it
>> >> >> with the Jaws cursor.
>> >> >> But finally I was able to move the focus to the currently opened
>> >> >> file
>> >> >> tab
>> >> >> title using F6 for more times. It was ok, however I couldn't move
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> focus
>> >> >> from that tab title to the textarea using Control+Tab, or just
>> >> >> tab...
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I've seen that if I have chosen to close it without saving the
>> >> >> file,
>> >> >> it
>> >> >> asked what I wanted to do, but it didn't even offered a hotkey for
>> >> >> choosing
>> >> >> "Don't save any file"
>> >> >> I think that most editors allow us to just press "N" in order to
>> >> >> choose a
>> >> >> "No", and we don't need to tab for more times in order to be able
>> >> >> to
>> >> >> press
>> >> >> that button.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> So it is not a great editor, not even with Jaws 8. Maybe 9?? Or
19?
>> >> >> :-)
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I like some of the ActiveState's programs if they are good, like
>> >> >> ActivePerl
>> >> >> and Perl Developer Kit, but not their inaccessible GUI ppm or
>> >> >> Commodo.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Octavian
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> >> From: "James Panes" <jimpanes@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >> >> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >> >> Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 3:53 PM
>> >> >> Subject: Re: Commodo
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > Hi Teddy,
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > If you have not already been told by 10 other list members. . .
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Try using the invisible cursor. It can read objects on the
screen
>> >> >> > without
>> >> >> > triggering them the way the JAWS cursor does.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Regards,
>> >> >> > Jim
>> >> >> > jimpanes@xxxxxxxxx
>> >> >> > jimpanes@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> >> > "Everything is easy when you know how."
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > ----- Original Message -----
>> >> >> > From: "Octavian Rasnita" <orasnita@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >> >> > To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >> >> > Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 12:25 PM
>> >> >> > Subject: Commodo
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Hi,
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > I've installed again Jaws 8 because I heard from many of the
list
>> >> >> > members
>> >> >> > that it works very well with Commodo.
>> >> >> > However, I found that it works not as bad as Jaws 6, but
horrible
>> >> >> > enough.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > I told you about that issue that I cannot read the title of the
>> >> >> > currently
>> >> >> > opened perl file with the Jaws cursor on the tab title, because
>> >> >> > Commodo
>> >> >> > seems to pop-up a menu when I move the Jaws cursor.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Well, it seems that this problem is the same with Jaws 8 as with
>> >> >> > Jaws
>> >> >> > 6.
>> >> >> > What were you doing to be able to do that?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Thanks.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Octavian
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > __________
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