RE: KeySoft: a modern version under current OS's
- From: "Ken Perry" <whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 19:39:51 -0400
Not a 60 gb 1.8 inch drive but yes it's not more than 100. The problem is
this. I can't go into things we are doing but let's say we wanted to buy
widget X you can use the drive as an example. Sony can buy widget x for $3
a unit because they buy 15000 min at a shot most of the time they buy 50,000
or 100,000 at a time. In this industry we cannot do that. So we either do
what sina says and make something on the market accessible but not simple or
we pay more. Now, Widget X when you buy it only 1000 at a time costs around
$200 so that is 200 a unit. I am exaggerating but I have seen the actual
statements. The real shock to me is some companies who make widget X will
not even talk to you if you don't buy in 10,000 units or more and that is
just a part of the device when you put 20 to 25 widget x's together in a
device you're not making a lot even charging 1395$ for a unit. I will point
out even Apple who makes millions of devices is charging 899 $ for the top
Ipad which believe me while it has everything is not a dream to write
documents on or create software for for blind users. Our idea at APH is we
want tools that you can use without having to fight with accessible but hard
to use devices. Take our new Book port + for example we jumped through all
kinds of hoops just so we could sell them at the current introductory price
of $299. Unlike some other companies of book / media players we don't
charge again for firm ware or content updates so once the unit is made and
the price is set that's and there are some really amazing features coming to
the Book port+ soon that will make this device on a plane of its own.
ken
Ken
-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jared Wright
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 7:26 PM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: KeySoft: a modern version under current OS's
Very encouraging. Still, a 60GB drive is now what... $20?
On 09/09/2010 06:47 PM, Ken Perry wrote:
> Braille + is only 1395
> $ yes more than a phone but find me a phone with 60 gb drive true it's not
a
> phone it's a pda but that's what I want. If my Phone breaks I still have
> all my music and books and I can send my phone in.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jared Wright
> Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 5:34 PM
> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: KeySoft: a modern version under current OS's
>
> Even the devices without Braille displays usually still run somewhere
> near $2000. An unlocked Droid 2 is $569 or something. And the latter
> blows the former out of the water in every technical metric possible. I
> think there is some merit to the notion of a smaller customer base
> meaning you have to increase your profit margin to make it worthwhile,
> but I think mostly it's that it's just always been this way, and none of
> these companies is going to be the one to take a hit on the bottom line
> for what's right. That just isn't how business is done. Of course, if
> one of them did, I think the consequences of such a move would surprise
> some, Company X included.
>
> On 09/09/2010 05:27 PM, Sina Bahram wrote:
>
>> You really believe this stuff? Honestly? Even after industry insiders
have
>>
> come on here and told you that they are making $5,500 per
>
>> product?
>>
>> Wow ...
>>
>> Take care,
>> Sina
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>
> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
>
>> Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 5:07 PM
>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: RE: KeySoft: a modern version under current OS's
>>
>> Hi,
>> Both CPU's use ARM architecture. I'd say the cost is related to low
>>
> customer base, exclusive contracts and braille display
>
>> technology as it stands.
>> Cheers,
>> Joseph
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Alex Hall
>> Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 1:51 PM
>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: Re: KeySoft: a modern version under current OS's
>>
>> Agreed. I have always wondered why it would kill HW and GWM to grab a
>>
> Snapdragon or comparable processor, a single or dual core at
>
>> 1ghz, and put it into a braille notetaker. I realize it is not quite that
>>
> simple, that embeded systems are not as plug-and-play as
>
>> desktop or laptop systems, but still... would it really be that hard?
>>
> After all, the mPower uses an xScale processor while the Apex
>
>> runs on a FreeScale. Sure they also had to port Keysoft from ce4.2 to
ce6,
>>
> but it still proves that it is possible to switch
>
>> processors. I wonder if any of the new processors are using the ARM
>>
> architecture, as I think that is what the Apex uses. Well, as
>
>> another poster said so well, this is nearing a rant so I will stop.
>>
>> On 9/9/10, Alex Midence<alex.midence@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Some of them are rather pricy and they can get away with it because
>>> it's a captive market and a specialty item. Nice if you work there
>>> not so nice if you're an end user and have to shell out three or four
>>> grand for a device.
>>>
>>> On 9/9/10, Jared Wright<wright.jaredm@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Cool, thanks for the specifications! Amazing how unimpressive the
>>>> technology even in some of these newer adaptive devices is. No modern
>>>> smartphone would dare ship with a processor comparable to that in
>>>> the Apex, and yet the only way to acquire one is to take out the
>>>> equivalent of a car loan or get an agency of some sort to foot the
>>>> bill. But I"m teetering on the verge of a rant, so I'll stop. Again.
>>>> *smile*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 09/09/2010 01:10 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Jared,
>>>>> It's X-Scale PXA272 at 416 MHz. Still, in terms of memory
>>>>> management, it is not that great - worse than Braille Sense family
>>>>> mostly because it runs under CE.NET 4.20. Apex uses Freescale i.MX31
>>>>> at 532 MHz (online
>>>>>
>>>>>
>> articles
>>
>>
>>>>> mistakenly wrote that it uses Atom processor) with WinCE 6.0.
>>>>> I'd say porting KeySoft over to newer guys might produce confusion
>>>>> at first and might generate mixed reviews (which was the case when
>>>>> this whole subject was brought before members of BrailleNote List).
>>>>> The intention of the originator of this idea was to make espeak
>>>>> sound more like a combo of KNGMM (KeyNote Gold Multimedia) and
>>>>> Infovox 230 and to write open-source version of KeySoft (almost 15
>>>>> year old code) and rename it to avoid copyright lawsuits. After
>>>>> talking to an ex-KeySoft developer about this idea, I
>>>>>
>>>>>
>> can
>>
>>
>>>>> see why - since KeySoft is HumanWare's property, HW would defend it
>>>>> to the fullest.
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Joseph
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jared
>>>>> Wright
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 9:49 AM
>>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Subject: Re: KeySoft: a modern version under current OS's
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm doubting it could run an X server, which means no Gnome. But
>>>>> once you take that out you can get Linux distributions downright
>>>>>
> microscopic.
>
>>>>> I've seen some that could run on 8MB of memory, although I don't
>>>>> know if you could get audio output functioning on those very easily.
>>>>> But the nice thing about a Braille display is its data is all just
>>>>> text in, text out when you get right down to it. Basically anything
>>>>> you could run at the terminal would probably be fair game if you
>>>>> were willing to tinker, with only applications that require
>>>>> additional hardware support being sketchy such as music players or
>>>>> CD burners. Supporting the hardware would be a bigger challenge than
>>>>> the technical ceiling of the device in general, really. This is all
>>>>> very interesting, I've many times thought about saying Eff the whole
>>>>> thing and get one of my friends to try and help me sodder a new
>>>>> microchip into my BrailleNote mPower to do this sort of thing. It is
>>>>> just an XScale processor if my research is at all reliable. But I
>>>>>
> digress.
>
>>>>> On 09/09/2010 12:22 PM, Alex Midence wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I am officially drooling. I based the 1 gb thing on how big the
>>>>>> distros like vinux seemed to be. How did you get it so small?
>>>>>> Does it run gnome? Or, is it all CLI? I was shown the icon during
>>>>>> my tech eval last year but it didn't have a braille display. I
>>>>>> chose the one I did because the braille display is integrated and
>>>>>> it seemed packed with features. I didn't know then that the daisy
>>>>>> reader couldn't read rfbd books, the word processor couldn't pull
>>>>>> up pdf files, the wi-fi card sucked big nasty rocks and never got
>>>>>> reception, you can't use it as a braille display for Jaws , and
>>>>>> you couldn't import xls files or export xls files. Does other cool
>>>>>>
> stuff though. Leave me alone!
>
>>>>>> Everyone has a coping mechanism. It does other cool stuff! It does!
>>>>>> Honest.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Alex M
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 9/9/10, Ken Perry<whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> OH you said one or 2 gb to run Linux if you're running OE Linux
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>> can
>>
>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>> do
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> it on much less we have 256 mb flash that it runs on and only 64
>>>>>>> mb
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>> ram
>>
>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>> of
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> course like I said before we have a 60 gb drive.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ken
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Alex
>>>>>>> Midence
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 3:44 AM
>>>>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: KeySoft: a modern version under current OS's
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You know, it would be really awesome if someone came up with a
>>>>>>> braille note taker that ran on linux. I have a braille sense plus
>>>>>>> 32 and it has 16 gb of on board memory. You just need 1 or 2 gigs
>>>>>>> to run a vinux distro on a machine. It seems a waste to only have
>>>>>>> these devices run on windows mobile or, worse, as in the case of
>>>>>>> the bs 32, windows CE. They could implement their own desktop
>>>>>>> specifically taylored to the machine with their own apps on it but
>>>>>>> still give the user access to the command line interface and all
>>>>>>> the apps and tools that run in that. Wish I had a note taker I
>>>>>>> wasn't using and the funds not to go all shaky at the thought of
>>>>>>> experimenting with such an expensive device. Might provide hours of
>>>>>>>
> fun tinkering.
>
>>>>>>> Alex M
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 9/9/10, Joseph Lee<joseph.lee22590@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Alex,
>>>>>>>> That's my point as well: why spend time on it when there are
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>> alternatives
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> availible? as it is, the current keysoft.exe was specialized to a
>>>>>>>> given platform and OS combinations. Writing a modern port of old
>>>>>>>> KS would mean re-defining programming strategies to take
>>>>>>>> advantage of new CPU's, as
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>> well
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> as redesigning interface and algorithms to give users a feell of
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>> using
>>
>>
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> BrailleNote app on modern computers.
>>>>>>>> From what I read on the BrailleNote List on Wednsday and after
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>> consulting
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> former and current KeySoft developers, I came to the conclusion
>>>>>>>> that it
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> be done in theory, but creating such a clone is far from reality
>>>>>>>> at this point. I'd say a word from Jamal, Tyler and other expert
>>>>>>>> programmers
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>> might
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> resolve this situation.
>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>> Joseph
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Alex
>>>>>>>> Midence
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 12:25 AM
>>>>>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: KeySoft: a modern version under current OS's
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Now, that's a blast from the past. I used Key Soft in high
>>>>>>>> school back in the early 1990's. My very first laptop was a
>>>>>>>> Keynote (predates keynote gold which I drooled over but never
>>>>>>>> got). I can
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>> see
>>
>>
>>>>>>>> that app doing well in linux but am hard pressed to see how it
>>>>>>>> would be worth the trouble to prot to windows xp or windows 7.
>>>>>>>> There are many better mainstream alternatives to choose from.
>>>>>>>> Linux, though would probably be a good place for it since
>>>>>>>> accessible applications are fewer there from what I've been able
>>>>>>>> to find. MIght be a nice addition to Vinux.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Alex M
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 9/8/10, Joseph Lee<joseph.lee22590@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi folks,
>>>>>>>>> Someone on the BrailleNote List is looking to port KeySoft for
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> DOS/Win95
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> modern OS's such as Linux, Win7 and so forth. I think he is
>>>>>>>>> looking for someone to help him out with this task, with an
>>>>>>>>> eventual goal of
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> releasing
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> as an open-source product under GPL license.
>>>>>>>>> If you want to contact him, write to jkenn337@xxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>> Joseph
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> __________
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
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>> --
>> Have a great day,
>> Alex (msg sent from GMail website)
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