Re: JAWS and ViEmu for Visual Studio 2008
- From: Kerneels Roos <kerneels@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2010 11:02:39 +0200
Hi Jamel, Rick
I've never tried Windows Eyes but hear many good things about it -- should
look into it for sure. Is it the same as JAWS in terms of a demo/trial
period of 40 mins?
Jamel, a custom FocusPointMoved event did the job for me! I actually first
tried it on gvim, the original editor I want to make more accessible. Thanks
for that pointer! I had a look at the event's usage in the default.jss file
and then customised it for the gvim editor, and soon I'll do it for VS with
ViEmu as well -- pretty sure it will work there as well.
This was actually the first time I've started delving into the JAWS scritpt
customisation world, after making do for so long without the need, although
I actually attended a JFW scripts customisation course in 2006. It's not as
complicated as I expected.
Regarding the gvim editor, I've noticed that if the font size is set to
anything larger than 12 then JAWS can't figure out what is happening on the
screen. Do you perhaps have any idea why this is? I tried playing around
with larger cursor sizes in the JFW customisation settings for the
particular application but this does not seem to solve the problem.
I also had a look at the source code for gvim, which is written (looks like
it) entirely in C with the GUI part implemented with GTK2. I'm going to ask
the folks that make the windows binaries if it would be possible to use a
more accessible GUI API. Any suggestions as to what GUI API could work
better? As I've said, the core editor and GUI is written in C not even C++
it seems?
Regards,
Thanks,
Kerneels
On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 5:52 PM, RicksPlace <ofbgmail@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Have you ever tried VS with Windoweyes? The more I hear about the JAWS UI
> the more I think WindowEyes might be a better choice. I tried JAWS once and
> did not care for it. I only spent a few days with it and that was a long
> time ago. That said, most things are pretty accessible with WindowEyes
> without a script. It is just a thought after reading so many posts about
> tweaks to make JAWS work with VS better.
> Rick USA
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Kerneels Roos <kerneels@xxxxxxxxx>
> *To:* program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ;
> programmingblind<programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 03, 2010 10:15 AM
> *Subject:* JAWS and ViEmu for Visual Studio 2008
>
> Hi folks,
> Before I begin this message I would like to thank everyone on this list and
> others related to programming while being visually disabled. Not only do
> people take out the time to read and respond to queries on the list, but
> some individuals have even taken the time to respond with much information
> off list. This is incredible to me and it really encourages me to find
> solutions and help where I can as well.
>
> Now let me get into the topic of this post. The ViEmu add on for VS 2008 is
> really more than an add on, it integrates with VS 2008 on a package level --
> you find it's options under Tools > Options and then one of the entries in
> the tree selection after installing it of course. It transforms the VS
> native code editor into a vim-like editor that can perform an impressive
> array of classic vim functions.
>
> At this stage it looks like a very good option to increase productivity
> while editing code in VS. For starters, JAWS actually reads line contents
> (as apposed to no speech on gvim text editor alone -- at least on my system
> that is). The contents of a line is read right after a motion with the arrow
> keys or a key combo like JAWS key + Numpad 8.
>
> To prevent JAWS from repeatedly reading the character under the block
> cursor while in vim normal mode, one has to change the JFW config file for
> VS to turn off screen echo since the vim normal mode is a blinking block
> cursor -- JFW thinks it has to read it each time it blinks. For the vim
> insert and vim visual modes things seem ok since those use a thin cursor
> positioned just before where the next character will appear.
>
> In vim normal mode one can jump around the text with key sequences like
> these:
> 5j will jump down 5 lines, 7k will move up 7 lines, 3w will move 3 words
> along the same line etc. Unfortunately JFW does not read the line just
> after a move command while in vim normal mode. To hear the contents of the
> line the cursor is on one has to do JFW key + Numpad 8 or Up, Down arrow
> quickly.
>
> And that brings me to my actual question; is there a way of instructing JFW
> to read the contents of a line as soon as the cursor changes line? It
> happens perfectly when one changes lines with the arrow keys, but not with
> the vim movement commands, which tells me JFW doesn't look at if the cursor
> changed position but rather if an arrrow key was pressed.
>
> Secondly, while on the same line, if the cursor moves JFW should ideally:
> 1. read the char just before the cursor if the movement was one char,
> 2. read the next word if the cursor lands on the first letter of a word,
>
> Note that it is possible to move N number of words forward with a vim
> normal mode keystroke of something like Nw where N is a number.
>
> So basically one would want to instruct JFW to read the cursor line as soon
> as it changes, or otherwise, as soon as a vim normal mode move command was
> issued, which can be fairly complex, for example:
> gg moves cursor to top of file,
> G moves cursor to bottom of file
> fx will search for the next occurance of x, which can be any character (for
> example, to find the next ',' comma character you simply issue the command
> f, (that is the key f and the key , right after each other)).
>
> I guess this question could be summarised as follows:
> 1. Where would one enter code or perform a customisation to cause JFW to
> treat special keystrokes as if they were some other known key stroke?
> 2. How complex is the JFW key recognition system -- does it for example
> allow you to use regular expressions to identify key sequences?
> 3. Vim normal mode is entered by pressing the escape key while in any other
> vim mode (for example, while in vim insert mode if you press escape you
> enter vim normal mode). Would it be possible to toggle some JFW variable
> depending on if escape was pressed, and can that variable then be read by
> the other keyboard intercept code?
> 4. Alternatively, is there a way to instruct JFW to echo the contents of a
> line as soon as the cursor changes lines -- even if that change jumps the
> cursor several lines further?
>
> This question is quite a technical complex one. Yes it relates more to
> customising JAWS than to general programming issues, but it also relates to
> programming while being visually impaired. My apologies if it is the wrong
> list / too much off topic.
>
> Best Regards,
> Kerneels
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Kerneels Roos
> Cell/SMS: +27 (0)82 309 1998
> Skype: cornelis.roos
>
> --::| links |::--
> 1. Home: http://fmous.net
> 2. LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kerneels
> 3. oDesk:
> http://www.odesk.com/users/~~36f3a640e4d4e119<http://www.odesk.com/users/%7E%7E36f3a640e4d4e119>
> --::| links |::--
>
>
--
Kerneels Roos
Cell/SMS: +27 (0)82 309 1998
Skype: cornelis.roos
--::| links |::--
1. Home: http://fmous.net
2. LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kerneels
3. oDesk: http://www.odesk.com/users/~~36f3a640e4d4e119
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