Re: JAWS and ViEmu for Visual Studio 2008

  • From: "Jacob Kruger" <jacobk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2010 12:29:05 +0200

I think it runs in a 30 minute demo mode.

Stay well

Jacob Kruger
Blind Biker
Skype: BlindZA
'...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...'

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Kerneels Roos 
  To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
  Sent: Monday, June 07, 2010 11:02 AM
  Subject: Re: JAWS and ViEmu for Visual Studio 2008


  Hi Jamel, Rick

  I've never tried Windows Eyes but hear many good things about it -- should 
look into it for sure. Is it the same as JAWS in terms of a demo/trial period 
of 40 mins?

  Jamel, a custom FocusPointMoved event did the job for me! I actually first 
tried it on gvim, the original editor I want to make more accessible. Thanks 
for that pointer! I had a look at the event's usage in the default.jss file and 
then customised it for the gvim editor, and soon I'll do it for VS with ViEmu 
as well -- pretty sure it will work there as well.

  This was actually the first time I've started delving into the JAWS scritpt 
customisation world, after making do for so long without the need, although I 
actually attended a JFW scripts customisation course in 2006. It's not as 
complicated as I expected.

  Regarding the gvim editor, I've noticed that if the font size is set to 
anything larger than 12 then JAWS can't figure out what is happening on the 
screen. Do you perhaps have any idea why this is? I tried playing around with 
larger cursor sizes in the JFW customisation settings for the particular 
application but this does not seem to solve the problem.

  I also had a look at the source code for gvim, which is written (looks like 
it) entirely in C with the GUI part implemented with GTK2. I'm going to ask the 
folks that make the windows binaries if it would be possible to use a more 
accessible GUI API. Any suggestions as to what GUI API could work better? As 
I've said, the core editor and GUI is written in C not even C++ it seems?

  Regards,
  Thanks,
  Kerneels


  On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 5:52 PM, RicksPlace <ofbgmail@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

    Have you ever tried VS with Windoweyes? The more I hear about the JAWS UI 
the more I think WindowEyes might be a better choice. I tried JAWS once and did 
not care for it. I only spent a few days with it and that was a long time ago. 
That said, most things are pretty accessible with WindowEyes without a script. 
It is just a thought after reading so many posts about tweaks to make JAWS work 
with VS better.
    Rick USA
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: Kerneels Roos 
      To: program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ; programmingblind 
      Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 10:15 AM
      Subject: JAWS and ViEmu for Visual Studio 2008


      Hi folks,
      Before I begin this message I would like to thank everyone on this list 
and others related to programming while being visually disabled. Not only do 
people take out the time to read and respond to queries on the list, but some 
individuals have even taken the time to respond with much information off list. 
This is incredible to me and it really encourages me to find solutions and help 
where I can as well.

      Now let me get into the topic of this post. The ViEmu add on for VS 2008 
is really more than an add on, it integrates with VS 2008 on a package level -- 
you find it's options under Tools > Options and then one of the entries in the 
tree selection after installing it of course. It transforms the VS native code 
editor into a vim-like editor that can perform an impressive array of classic 
vim functions.

      At this stage it looks like a very good option to increase productivity 
while editing code in VS. For starters, JAWS actually reads line contents (as 
apposed to no speech on gvim text editor alone -- at least on my system that 
is). The contents of a line is read right after a motion with the arrow keys or 
a key combo like JAWS key + Numpad 8.

      To prevent JAWS from repeatedly reading the character under the block 
cursor while in vim normal mode, one has to change the JFW config file for VS 
to turn off screen echo since the vim normal mode is a blinking block cursor -- 
JFW thinks it has to read it each time it blinks. For the vim insert and vim 
visual modes things seem ok since those use a thin cursor positioned just 
before where the next character will appear.

      In vim normal mode one can jump around the text with key sequences like 
these:
      5j  will jump down 5 lines, 7k  will move up 7 lines, 3w will move 3 
words along the same line  etc. Unfortunately JFW does not read the line just 
after a move command while in vim normal mode. To hear the contents of the line 
the cursor is on one has to do JFW key + Numpad 8 or Up, Down arrow quickly.

      And that brings me to my actual question; is there a way of instructing 
JFW to read the contents of a line as soon as the cursor changes line? It 
happens perfectly when one changes lines with the arrow keys, but not with the 
vim movement commands, which tells me JFW doesn't look at if the cursor changed 
position but rather if an arrrow key was pressed.

      Secondly, while on the same line, if the cursor moves JFW should ideally:
      1. read the char just before the cursor if the movement was one char,
      2. read the next word if the cursor lands on the first letter of a word,

      Note that it is possible to move N number of words forward with a vim 
normal mode keystroke of something like Nw where N is a number.

      So basically one would want to instruct JFW to read the cursor line as 
soon as it changes, or otherwise, as soon as a vim normal mode move command was 
issued, which can be fairly complex, for example:
      gg  moves cursor to top of file,
      G moves cursor to bottom of file
      fx will search for the next occurance of x, which can be any character 
(for example, to find the next ',' comma character you simply issue the command 
f, (that is the key f and the key , right after each other)).

      I guess this question could be summarised as follows:
      1. Where would one enter code or perform a customisation to cause JFW to 
treat special keystrokes as if they were some other known key stroke?
      2. How complex is the JFW key recognition system -- does it for example 
allow you to use regular expressions to identify key sequences?
      3. Vim normal mode is entered by pressing the escape key while in any 
other vim mode (for example, while in vim insert mode if you press escape you 
enter vim normal mode). Would it be possible to toggle some JFW variable 
depending on if escape was pressed, and can that variable then be read by the 
other keyboard intercept code?
      4. Alternatively, is there a way to instruct JFW to echo the contents of 
a line as soon as the cursor changes lines -- even if that change jumps the 
cursor several lines further?

      This question is quite a technical complex one. Yes it relates more to 
customising JAWS than to general programming issues, but it also relates to 
programming while being visually impaired. My apologies if it is the wrong list 
/ too much off topic.

      Best Regards,
      Kerneels





      -- 
      Kerneels Roos
      Cell/SMS: +27 (0)82 309 1998
      Skype: cornelis.roos

      --::| links |::--
      1. Home: http://fmous.net
      2. LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kerneels
      3. oDesk: http://www.odesk.com/users/~~36f3a640e4d4e119
      --::| links |::--




  -- 
  Kerneels Roos
  Cell/SMS: +27 (0)82 309 1998
  Skype: cornelis.roos

  --::| links |::--
  1. Home: http://fmous.net
  2. LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kerneels
  3. oDesk: http://www.odesk.com/users/~~36f3a640e4d4e119
  --::| links |::--



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