Re: Competitiveness of blind web developers
- From: "Marlon Brandão de Sousa" <splyt.lists@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 10:37:36 -0200
Yours and mine to, I guess ... unless there are really walking cars :p.
In fact, most part of folks that were argumenting from our point of
view seen to live in non english contries.
Marlon
2007/12/3, Octavian Rasnita <orasnita@xxxxxxxxx>:
> Yeah it seems that many of us agree now, and in fact one of the problems of
> this discussion was my english which is not good enough to express all what
> I think.
> :-)
>
>
> Octavian
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Marlon Brandão de Sousa" <splyt.lists@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 2:18 PM
> Subject: Re: Competitiveness of blind web developers
>
>
> > OGood ... I sent five, six messages to that big thread trying to say
> > what Jamal just wrote here. It seen that the only problem was a kind
> > of comunication failed flow on that giant thing...
> > If some of you remember the first message I sent, it was the fifth or
> > sixth message, I said that a blind would never be able to compet with
> > sighted on pure visual aspects of the whole thing, and for me a web
> > designer is one worried with nothing but the pure visual stuff. I said
> > clearly a blind would be more productive working in the back end,
> > doing the logic buseness, since sight isn't needed to do this and
> > components can be tested, planned, well developed, while a sighted
> > designer can draw, plan interfaces, test, have insights and new ideas,
> > in the visual area.
> > Thanks Jamal for writing what most part of us were trying to say. I
> > think blinds, in the vast majority of cases, can act as web
> > developpers without problems, but they can't act as webdesigners.
> > As for your google sample, Jamal, the main problem is that many
> > companies are still living in the stone age, and htat's the reazon why
> > google is taking so many leadership in several areas of services ...
> > to most part of companies a good site still is one full of animations
> > and colors, they still trust more on an apealing interface than in
> > usability ... so emploiment, as seen by this perspective, would be a
> > problem because few companies are more worried with usability, and a
> > blind designer would succeed only in sites made with this in mind, so
> > only a few companies would employ a blind web designer (note that I am
> > talking about a blind web designer, not about a blind web developper).
> > Another [problem is that, in some countries, one working with web
> > stuff is expected to be a developper and a designer. People still
> > didn't realise that an artist would be better with graphics than a
> > developer, so they aquire one guy and want he / she does the logic
> > and the interface, and if you talk these guys that a blind could only
> > do the logical stuff they won't accept him because he can't do the
> > interface.
> > This is changing, but it is doing that a little slow ... but, as
> > separation between web designer and web developper is becoming more
> > used, blinds can meet more jobs in the web developement area.
> > Marlon
> > 2007/12/1, Jamal Mazrui <empower@xxxxxxxxx>:
> >> Given Octavian's prior experience as a sighted web designer, I take him
> >> at
> >> his word that he cannot do things he used to be able to do, and empathize
> >> with his implicit frustration at not being able to compete favorably with
> >> sighted web designers in every possible way.. With that said, however, I
> >> think it is flawed reasoning to think that we compete against people who
> >> have all of the same skills except for the addition of sight. As others
> >> here have said, we compete with a combination of strenghts and
> >> weaknesses,
> >> one of the latter being the lack of sight -- for both its physical and
> >> prejudicial consequences. I submit that the combination of Octavian's
> >> skills, by his own description, make him competitive as a web developer
> >> in
> >> his country. I did say web developer rather than web designer, because I
> >> infer that the latter refers to highly visual aspects of web development.
> >> It is understandable that a blind person would be at a serious
> >> disadvantage in primarily visuall-oriented artistic expression. I do
> >> not think blind people can compete in painting, for example.
> >>
> >> To me, a more important question than the competitiveness of web design,
> >> thus, is the competitiveness of web development for blind people. I
> >> think
> >> Octavian is right that a lot of web sites emphasize "sexy" visual appeal,
> >> for which blind people cannot realistically compete in development.
> >> However, I do not agree that such web sites are the primary means of web
> >> site competitiveness. Google -- the most popular web site in the
> >> world --
> >> has succeeded partly because of the usability of its design, which is not
> >> visually sexy, but highly usable. Many other sites would similarly
> >> benefit from principles that emphasize productivity rather than
> >> entertainment of the user, and users would reward such sites with their
> >> visitation and purchases.
> >>
> >> Thus, I think it is more meaningful to conceive of us competing as web
> >> developers rather than web designers. We cannot provide all the glitzy
> >> subtleties that the best sighted designers can do, but we can master
> >> principles of web site usability (including accessibility) that make the
> >> sites we develop both productive and pleasing to visit.
> >>
> >> These things said, I do think that we have to be extra good at nonvisual
> >> aspects of a profession in order to compete -- again, because of both
> >> physical and prejudicial adversities. We must, for example, know HTML,
> >> CSS, and principles of visual asthetics, mouse, and keyboard usability
> >> better than average in order to compensate for the disadvantages that we
> >> will fase as a result of blindness. Doing so is within the realm of
> >> possibility -- not just for the exceptions -- but it does require
> >> additional dedication to the field.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Jamal
> >> __________
> >> View the list's information and change your settings at
> >> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > When you say "I wrote a program that crashed Windows," people just
> > stare at you blankly and say "Hey, I got those with the system, for
> > free."
> > Linus Torvalds
> > __________
> > View the list's information and change your settings at
> > //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
> >
>
> __________
> View the list's information and change your settings at
> //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind
>
>
--
When you say "I wrote a program that crashed Windows," people just
stare at you blankly and say "Hey, I got those with the system, for
free."
Linus Torvalds
__________
View the list's information and change your settings at
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