Re: Blind Programming, Workshop 1, Narrated Video

  • From: Alex Midence <alex.midence@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 02:35:08 -0500

While reading through this thread, there was something that just jump
out and grabbed me:

"In our
implementation, we bypass the Java access bridge and worked with
Oracle to write our own screen reader, ..."  Any way to use this
screen reader you have crafted on other jvm applications?  Open office
perhaps? Or, is it specific only to your language and netbeans?  It
would be awesome to find a screen reader taht ran on a jre and that
worked with applicaitons that were java-based.  It could potentially
be the first multiplatform screen reader.  How feasible is this?  Wish
I knew Java!

Alex M


On 9/5/10, Chris Hofstader <cdh@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> We have a lot of languages with a lot of debuggers around the GNU world. If
> you send me mail at my cdh@xxxxxxx address, I can probably find a list of
> free software language and debugger implementations that you can look into.
> I'm not sure I'll know where to find all of this but I can poke around until
> I find someone who does.
> On Sep 3, 2010, at 11:04 AM, DaShiell, Jude T. CIV NAVAIR 1490, 1, 26 wrote:
>
>> I have an idea, wherever and whenever possible give open source top
>> priority in debugger development work.  If commercial vendors want your
>> research team to work on their debuggers make sure you get two donations,
>> one to help defray costs for open source debugger development and the
>> second donation in terms of both funding and technical assistance to be
>> put towards doing the actual commercial accessibile debugger development
>> work.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Andreas Stefik
>> Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 10:27
>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: Re: Blind Programming, Workshop 1, Narrated Video
>>
>> An excellent question!
>>
>> The short answer is, yes, we do. First, while Hop is a language
>> designed to be easy to use (explored in formal studies), it is also a
>> legit programming language that works like any other. As such, while
>> Hop isn't quite commercially scalable quite yet, we are working hard
>> on optimization issues to make it so. For example, I just finished the
>> first round of debugger optimizations for Hop. The new debugger
>> architecture in Sodbeans 1.5 (released hopefully in december), is
>> 57,261% faster than the 1.0 release so far, and it's only getting
>> better.
>>
>> Second, the tools we've created are integrated into NetBeans 6.9,
>> which is a standard programming environment and includes lots of other
>> languages the students can play with and learn, without having to
>> change tools or environments. Now, in practice, Java, Python, or other
>> NetBeans supported languages, don't have talking debuggers, and they
>> certainly don't connect easily to a screen reader, but what we would
>> really like to do is get talking debuggers ready for other languages
>> as well, so that kids can transition more easily, and so that
>> professionals have better audio environments available for
>> professional level work as well. With that said, creating a talking
>> debugger for every language would definitely require collaboration
>> with a number of other groups and industry. It's also pretty
>> difficult, as not all languages are open source or are easily
>> modifiable, and just from the natural complexity of writing debuggers,
>> which is pretty brain bending at times.
>>
>> So yaa, that's the basic plan. You asked a great question, and this
>> transfer effect idea, as it is called, has been very important to our
>> research team.
>>
>> Stefik
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 9:02 AM, Jared Wright <wright.jaredm@xxxxxxxxx>
>> wrote:
>>> I'm curious, do you have some ideas  in place for helping students who
>>> learn
>>> Hop transition to more mainstream programming languages? I'm real excited
>>> about the accessible  Netbeans environment and understand  the  reasoning
>>> behind making the language's terminology more intuitive to
>>> nonprogrammers.
>>> But a nonprogrammer after learning Hop is, by definition, no longer a
>>> nonprogrammer, and if they want to progress to anything more widely used
>>> they'll need to learn "do", "while",  and "for" anyway.
>>> On 09/03/2010 09:52 AM, Andreas Stefik wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Tyler is correct, we built a custom compiler, debugger, and audio
>>>> architecture to support the kids called Hop. We talk about it very
>>>> briefly in the video, but we've been running a bunch of studies on the
>>>> syntax and semantics to ensure it easy to use, one of which is coming
>>>> out soon in the Software Quality Journal from Springer. There are
>>>> ideas in the language borrowed from a number of languages, including
>>>> Python, Ruby, Java, and many other features that we have, sometimes
>>>> accidentally, found in studies.
>>>>
>>>> If you are curious about the details of the language, here is a link
>>>> to the documentation:
>>>>
>>>> https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/sodbeans/wiki/Hop
>>>>
>>>> Stefik
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 8:36 AM, Littlefield, Tyler<tyler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I believe it's a custom language of sorts they set up, unless I'm
>>>>> thinking
>>>>> about a different project.
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alex
>>>>> Midence"<alex.midence@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> To:<programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 7:35 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: Blind Programming, Workshop 1, Narrated Video
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Good morning, Andreas,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What programming language does your workshop use to introduce the
>>>>>> subject?  I remember you mentioning that it was something pretty easy
>>>>>> to learn but don't remember if it was Python or Ruby or something like
>>>>>> that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Alex M
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 9/2/10, Andreas Stefik<stefika@xxxxxxxxx>  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Our team here has finished an aurally narrated, closed captioned,
>>>>>>> video of the first year of our summer workshop on blind computer
>>>>>>> programming, that we recently completed out at the Washington State
>>>>>>> School for the Blind. Thanks again to all those who made this
>>>>>>> possible, and please enjoy:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v93or1v6xCk
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Stefik
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