Hi. yes, i thought the table panel layout manager, would do the trick, but when i was getting help from a sighted friend, he said he had to move all the controls, because he said i had table panel layout manager, but nothing set, and all the controls on top of each other. so, that's doesn't really suit my situation in jaws. so will have to manually move the controls around, until no overlap. and in some of my simple examples, except where the labels are quite long in one example, seemed to line up the buttons one under neath each other when using the route jaws to pc cursur. is this how i read the compiled applications, or use the insert b key, which reads fine as well. so will go with this technique. and will slowly rebuild the applications. pity microsoft in vs 2008, did not think of backward compatability. cheers Marvin. __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind