[no subject]
- From: "Bryan Schulz" <b.schulz@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 17:33:23 -0500
hi,
it still sounds like a tall mountain. thanks for clarifying.
Bryan Schulz
----- Original Message -----
From: Trouble
To: program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2012 4:41 PM
Subject: [program-l] Re: IOS Development, maybe?
Any mac running the Intel chip set witch would be snow leopard and
up. Will have the best of voice over. Less versions the speech is not
very well and more of a learning curve just for the op. Also the
tools needed for iPhone or iPod apps will only run on snow leopard and up.
At 10:59 AM 6/17/2012, you wrote:
>hi,
>
>thanks, the main part was what o/s.
>are you saying snow leopard will only run on a mac mini? i wouldn't think so.
>there are several macbook or macbook pro models on ebay for 200 or
>less and i don't really care if it is a refirb.
>Bryan Schulz
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:trouble1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>Trouble
>To: <mailto:program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2012 9:26 AM
>Subject: [program-l] Re: IOS Development, maybe?
>
>You might find a Mac mini for that to run snow leopard, but no
>macBook or pro. They don't go down in price much. Also anything
>before snow leopard won't have as good of voiceover on it. Most
>mini's can be found for around 500 or less. The time to get use to it
>is up to you. I had my macbook pro down in a few days.
>
>At 09:36 PM 6/16/2012, you wrote:
> >hi,
> >
> >thanks for this thread.
> >what do you think of a macbook or macbook pro as i only want to
> >spend a max of 200 bucks on ebay to get something to experiment/bang on.
> >i have only developed personal hobby vb.net 2008 express windows apps.
> >how much time do you think it will take to get used to a mac and
> >start using xcode?
> >which o/s will come with voice over?
> >how feasible is it for blind programmers to create iphone apps?
> >thanks.
> >Bryan Schulz
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From:
> <<mailto:chojiro1990@xxxxxxxxx>Nicolai>mailto:chojiro1990@xxxxxxxxx>Nicolai
> Svendsen
> >To:
>
<<mailto:program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>mailto:program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2012 4:53 PM
> >Subject: [program-l] Re: IOS Development, maybe?
> >
> >Hi,
> >
> >The trouble is when you play with code from books which go into
> >custom elements. Most of them are very likely to, and many of them
> >skip how to make them accessible. Standard elements are pretty
> >accessible from the beginning, and while they don't limit you,
> >necessarily, if you want something complex or something unique
> >custom elements may be the way to go. That may be part of what you
> >experienced, but I'm not sure which code you used.
> >
> >All the knowledge I've shared so far comes from hands-on experience,
> >so you can just feel free to grab my e-mail address and ask for
> >further contact details privately on there if necessary. That way, I
> >can keep things nice and organised.
> >
> >Regards,
> >Nicolai
> >On Jun 16, 2012, at 11:07 PM, "J. R. Westmoreland"
> ><<<mailto:jr@xxxxxxx>jr@xxxxxxx>mailto:jr@xxxxxxx>jr@xxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> > > I played with some of the demo code from one of the iDevice programming
> > > books and their apps were not usable at all on the device.
> > > I haven't tried building one from scratch to see what does and
> > doesn't work.
> > > Have you actually tried to build one via xcode?
> > > It is wonderful to find someone who has been working with xcode
> for as long
> > > or longer than I have. You notice I don't intend to do any
> comparisons. LOL
> > > Thanks for all your information I'd like to chat with you off
> list and see
> > > if you do some of the things with xcode the same way I do them
> or maye you
> > > have abetter way.
> > >
> > > Thanks again,
> > > J. R.
> > > Email: <<mailto:jr@xxxxxxx>jr@xxxxxxx>mailto:jr@xxxxxxx>jr@xxxxxxx
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From:
> >
>
<<mailto:program-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>program-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxx>mailto:program-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>program-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> > g [mailto:program-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> > > On Behalf Of Nicolai Svendsen
> > > Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2012 12:44 PM
> > > To:
>
<<mailto:program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>mailto:program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Subject: [program-l] Re: IOS Development, maybe?
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > You're not going to be able to use them with VoiceOver in the
> way that you
> > > expect. Since they are developed within Interface Builder, they're
pretty
> > > much hands off for the moment to VoiceOver users. Chances are
> that you have
> > > already interacted with a storyboard on either your iPhone, iPad or iPod
> > > Touch, because you're not going to know about it. Storyboard is
> > handy from a
> > > developer perspective because it helps reduce the number of
> files that you
> > > need. For instance, a separate View Controller had to be
> > maintained within a
> > > .nib file, but now you can use Storyboards to tie them all
> > together within a
> > > single file and making it easier to view the relationships between your
> > > various View controllers. As mentioned previously, it is useful
> because if
> > > using Storyboarding you do not need to switch to different nib files in
> > > order to view your controllers if developing multiscreen applications.
> > >
> > > Storyboards also contain advantages over regular nib files.
> Designing your
> > > application using Storyboard allows you to get a better
> conceptual overview
> > > of your application and the screens that contains, as well as the
> > > connections between them. It is much easier to keep track of your design
> > > because it is no longer spread out over multiple nibs, as used to be the
> > > case. Secondly, a storyboard describes the transitions between
> the various
> > > screens within your app. These transitions are technically referred to
as
> > > "segues" and you can make these by simply holding down ctrl and dragging
> > > from one view controller to the next one. A third advantage is that
table
> > > views are also made a lot simpler to create due to the new prototype and
> > > static cell features. You can almost design your tables within the
> > > Storyboard Editor now.
> > >
> > > Chances are that most developers use Storyboard. In fact, it'd be
strange
> > > not to. Given how Storyboard easily keeps track of your design
> but within a
> > > single file, it allows you to make changes much more quickly to
different
> > > parts of the screen without having to switch between various files
> > > constantly. In my personal opinion Storyboard Editor still is not as
> > > powerful as Interface Builder, but I'm sure it'll get there. You can
also
> > > combine Storyboard with Interface Builder.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Nicolai
> > > On Jun 16, 2012, at 7:59 PM, "J. R. Westmoreland"
> > <<<mailto:jr@xxxxxxx>jr@xxxxxxx>mailto:jr@xxxxxxx>jr@xxxxxxx> wrote:
> > >
> > >> I have not had any luck with story board. They appear to be
> > >> inaccessible both from an App perspective and also in Xcode. I haven't
> > >> put much work into it after having no luck using them as a
> blind person on
> > > the iPhone and iPad.
> > >>
> > >> J. R.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From:
> >
>
<<mailto:program-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>program-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>mailto:program-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>program-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >> [mailto:program-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> > >> On Behalf Of Nicolai Svendsen
> > >> Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2012 9:04 AM
> > >> To:
>
<<mailto:program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>mailto:program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >> Subject: [program-l] Re: IOS Development, maybe?
> > >>
> > >> Hi,
> > >>
> > >> I'll be happy to help if anyone has questions that you think I
> can answer.
> > >> I've worked with iOS Development since Xcode 3, and used it for months
> > >> for a project in Computer Science and still use it now for a good part
> > >> of our projects, despite that it's not a requirement.
> > >>
> > >> As for StoryBoard, I'm not sure if someone answered this. Storyboard
> > >> or "storyboarding," is the ability to specify not just the screen of
> > >> your application, but also the transitions between them as well as the
> > >> controls used to trigger them. Essentially, this permits you to lay
> > >> out every single path within your application in a graphical fashion
> > >> and thus reducing the amount of code for multiscreen apps. Storyboard
> > >> relies heavily on Interface Builder.
> > >>
> > >> That's the basics of it, anyway.
> > >>
> > >> Regards,
> > >> Nicolai
> > >> On Jun 16, 2012, at 4:55 PM, "J. R. Westmoreland"
> > <<<mailto:jr@xxxxxxx>jr@xxxxxxx>mailto:jr@xxxxxxx>jr@xxxxxxx> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> That makes two of us. Maybe we can work on a conference call and pool
> > >> notes
> > >>> etc.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>> From:
> >
>
<<mailto:program-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>program-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>mailto:program-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>program-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >> [mailto:program-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> > >>> On Behalf Of Michael Taboada
> > >>> Sent: Friday, June 15, 2012 9:04 PM
> > >>> To:
>
<<mailto:program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>mailto:program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >>> Subject: [program-l] Re: IOS Development, maybe?
> > >>>
> > >>> Hey Alex,
> > >>> If you have skype or another voice chat application, I'd be willing
> > >>> to
> > >> help
> > >>> you out with whatever I can in realtime if possible.
> > >>> Hth,
> > >>> -Michael.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>> From: Alex Hall
> > >>> Sent: Friday, June 15, 2012 9:00 PM
> > >>> To:
>
<<mailto:program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>mailto:program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >>> Subject: [program-l] Re: IOS Development, maybe?
> > >>>
> > >>> I tried this, but never could get it to work. If someone who has made
> > >>> even so much as a hello world app could write up or record steps,
> > >>> using vo, it would help immensely. So far, I can't even get to my
> > >>> code to edit it, and that's the big problem. Once I can select the
> > >>> files in my project and edit their contents, I should be well on my
> > >>> way as the rest of XCode makes sense. Also, there seems to be this
> > > "storyboard"
> > >>> option, for iOS5 and above. Does this make a difference in the
> > >>> project's layout?
> > >>>
> > >>> On 6/15/12, Edgar Lozano
> >
>
<<<mailto:1419goku@xxxxxxxxx>1419goku@xxxxxxxxx>mailto:1419goku@xxxxxxxxx>1419goku@xxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
> > >>>> Thanks Michael,
> > >>>> Unfortunately, I don't have a Mac at this current moment, but
> > >>>> hopefully I can obtain one in the near future. So that firsthand
> > >>>> experience won't be available for me.
> > >>>> That is precisely why I decided to ask about possible IOS
> > >>>> development on Windows.
> > >>>> But it's just good to know that a blind person can manipulate the
> > >>>> visual layout with code and other XCode components that are
> > >>>> accessible with VoiceOver.
> > >>>> Thanks, and have a good day.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On 6/15/12, Michael Taboada
> >
>
<<<mailto:ai5hf@xxxxxxxxxxx>ai5hf@xxxxxxxxxxx>mailto:ai5hf@xxxxxxxxxxx>ai5hf@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
> > >>>>> Hi,
> > >>>>> I currently am actually working on iOS apps on my mac. I have heard
> > >>>>> things like corona or other non-apple-approved platforms can make
> > >>>>> iOS apps on windows, but I haven't used them so can't comment.
> > >>>>> I haven't been able to get a straight answer on the mac side, and I
> > >>>>> haven't
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> started very much on the mac iOS app side yet, but what I can tell
> > >>>>> you
> > >> is
> > >>>>> below:
> > >>>>> It is certainly possible to make apps as a blind developer. There
> > >>>>> are generally two or so components of the app development process:
> > >>>>> interface builder, which is kind of like a drag and drop interface
> > >>>>> tool, and your standard code. This is the part I can't get a
straight
> > > ansewr on:
> > >>>>> interface
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> builder has been notoriously inaccessible in the older versions of
> > >> xcode,
> > >>>>> and for that reason (along with the fact I'm working on a project
> > >>>>> that was half completed about a year ago) I haven't touched it in
> > >>>>> the new versions.
> > >>>>> I've heard things ranging from still no accessibility, to some
> > >>>>> accessibility, but not enough to make it worth while -- although if
> > >>>>> you have
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> firsthand experience feel free to correct me on this. The part that
> > >>>>> is accessible is the coding part, and that can also be used to make
> > >>>>> the interface programatically. That is what I currently use, as
> > >>>>> even if interface builder is accessible, I am more experienced with
> > >>>>> this kind of interface design.
> > >>>>> So in regards to whether a blind person can develop an app -- sure.
> > >>>>> Just remember that you most likely can't use every single tool
> > >>>>> available to make
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> the life of sighted developers easier -- unless, of course, you
> > >>>>> have someone
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> who is sighted to help. Also remember that even when developing the
> > >>>>> interface through code, I'd highly recommend you get a sighted
> > >>>>> person to cryticize the layout.
> > >>>>> Hth,
> > >>>>> -Michael.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>>>> From: Edgar Lozano
> > >>>>> Sent: Friday, June 15, 2012 6:24 PM
> > >>>>> To: program-l
> > >>>>> Subject: [program-l] IOS Development, maybe?
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Hello all,
> > >>>>> I am not sure whether this question has previously been asked, but
> > >>>>> I have done extensive research, and I haven't found a
> > >>>>> straightforward answer.
> > >>>>> So hopefully, some of y'all can help me.
> > >>>>> My question: Is there a fully accessible way to create an app on
> > >>>>> the IOS platform with VoiceOver on XCode?
> > >>>>> Also, I'm asking the following question for verification of
> > >>>>> difficulty, but possible, development.
> > >>>>> Can I develop apps for the IOS platform on a windows system?
> > >>>>> I'm pretty sure that it would be close to impossible.
> > >>>>> But as far as dragging and aligning IOS elements, I would imagine
> > >>>>> it would be rather challenging for a totally blind developer.
> > >>>>> Thank you, and have a great day!
> > >>>>> ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
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> > >>>>> **
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> > >>>>>
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> > with the Subject:- faq
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> --
> > >>> Have a great day,
> > >>> Alex (msg sent from GMail website)
> > >>>
>
<<mailto:mehgcap@xxxxxxxxx>mehgcap@xxxxxxxxx>mailto:mehgcap@xxxxxxxxx>mehgcap@xxxxxxxxx;
>
> > http://www.facebook.com/mehgcap
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