I should add to that below, that after doing that process the CPU in question is a 1.8ghz overclocked to 2.4ghz, and even before it's broken-in it never gets above 86°F. And again this is using the stock Intel P4 HSF unit. (I'm also changing the subject appropriately now so that anyone searching for this kind of info can more easily find it at the archives). -Clint ----- Original Message ----- The same thing happened to me a few days ago when I was swapping out a mobo for my Dad. Cheap plastic crap, they build them that way to force you to buy more of them. For me it broke when I was trying to remove the (stock Intel P4 Socket 478) HSF unit off the mobo. It's also an Asus. I was able to scavenge it from the other mobo. These can be called more than one thing; motherboard retention bracket, motherboard retention mechanism, motherboard retainer retention bracket, etc., etc., and also with 'CPU' or 'processor' in those words, or with 'motherboard' replaced with 'mainboard'. So they can be tough to find just on search parameters alone. Usually the stock ones are just a single piece of (cheap) plastic that attaches to the mobo either with (what else) plastic "push pins" or screws, screws which can be plastic or metal. Aftermarket ones can be like that or with a backplate which is usually metal, and sometimes both the backplate and actual retention/retainer can be metal. You just have to be sure you're getting one for a P4 Socket 478. While the ones with the backplate are generally better for durability/longevity and more evenly distribute the force without board flexing, the backplate is solid and totally covers up the back side of the CPU socket so no air flow can get to it. Also if it's metal, there's a thin plastic insulating sheet about 1" square THAT MUST BE USED or else you'd short all the SMD's in the area. (Tiny caps, resistors, etc, are on the back side of the mobo opposite the CPU socket). It can be already stuck to the metal, or separate. While I personally like all the air flow possible, I have used these types before with no heat problem, but it's even more imperative the TIM (thermal interface material) preparation and application be PERFECT. Yes, the HS MUST be totally cleaned of old TIM. If the existing HSF unit is a stock Intel, that means a troublesome thermal pad, which is usually saran-wrap-thin piece of aluminum coated on BOTH sides with paraffin wax! Regardless of how smooth a metal surface may feel, it is FULL of large pores (stupid I know) into which the wax will melt. Even if it's another kind of thermal pad, or just TIM alone, the pores get filled with this old TIM (which is the purpose of the TIM to provide a perfectly smooth non-porous mating surface). All of this old TIM must be removed to insure the best thermal transfer from CPU to HS. Do not use typical alcohol, denatured alcohol is ok or xylene-based carburetor cleaner or other xylene-based cleaner, also something called Goof-Off can be used. You have to really scrub and scrub until both surfaces are PERFECT, it may take a while. Don't use a stiff paper towel because that can actually scratch the surface of the HS which is actually soft! A cloth is ok, don't bother with lint-free at this stage, but since you're going to need one anyway then some kind of micro-fiber cloth would be good. You'll also need a can of compressed air. Once you're through scrubbing and the surfaces are pristine again, you can wipe with the micro-fiber cloth. Be sure that anytime you use compressed air you trigger it a few times onto your hand to be sure it's TOTALLY FREE of moisture and residue BEFORE you blast the HS and CPU surface. You'll of course need to do that immediately prior to applying the new TIM. Remember that it only takes one microscopic piece of lint or similar to ruin a perfect installation. Also don't EVER touch the mating surfaces with a hand or fingers once they've been cleaned. There's also cleaning kits you can get from companies that sell TIM, like Arctic Silver. Never use any oil-based cleaners, that includes any petroleum distillate, do not use. Applying the new TIM depends on which kind you get or have. So I'd have to know that to go further. What I do: I used the carburetor cleaner on the CPU and HS with a soft paper towel being sure to often use clean areas of the paper towel. Then I followed with some more cleaner using a coffee filter. Once I was positive the HS surface was totally clean, and lint free with the compressed air, I put a BB or so size of the TIM and did the "tinting" process. This involves taking something like a credit card (which I use, an old one I keep for this), and WITH FORCE drag and rake the TIM across the surface in EVERY POSSIBLE direction. Back and forth, both ways, at about 5° increments, being sure to press down hard, and being sure the card always has TIM on its leading under-edge. What this does is forces the TIM into the pores, pits, grooves and valleys (which is why the HS surface has to be totally clean first). The TIM takes the place of a flawlessly mirror-machined surface, it, this process, makes the surface as microscopically flat as possible. Once you're positive the TIM is in all the pores, wipe hard with a coffee filter, again in every possible direction, actually trying to REMOVE ALL of the TIM. What will be left is a "tint" of the color of the TIM, hence the name "tinting", and it is this tint due to the TIM in the pores and grooves. Follow with the compressed air again, then immediately apply the new TIM, again following the directions. Some require it be *EVENLY* raked across the surface, some require another BB or rice-grain-size of it to be put down and the compression of the HS onto the CPU flattens it out. Some types also do NOT use the tinting process. Since I use Arctic Silver 5 (aka AS5), it has its own specific instructions which is covered above, but only for application and not preparation because preparation is the same. What differs is the actual application of the TIM. If you don't have any, then I'd get some of that. I wouldn't use that garbage white silicone-based "thermal grease". Silicone is actually a thermal insulator! ANY TIM is a thermal insulator if too much is used. The goal of TIM is to give you a flawlessly smooth as thin as possible mating surface. Here is a PDF from Arctic Silver covering the application of AS5 for example: http://www.arcticsilver.com/pdf/appmeth/int/md/intel_app_method_middle_dot_v1.1.pdf It also covers preparation. I'll see what I can find in the area of the bracket you need and TIM, and email you off list. -Clint God Bless, Clint Hamilton, Owner www.OrpheusComputing.com www.ComputersCustomBuilt.com www.OrpheusComputing.com/cheap_reliable_web_hosting.html www.OrpheusComputing.com/PCworks-computer-help-email-list.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom" How might I go about trying to find the plastic bracket that surrounds the processor and holds the heat sink on an Asus P4P800 Deluxe motherboard? I have a computer with an Asus P4P800 Deluxe motherboard. Yesterday, Saturday, I heard a ping that kind of sounded like a spring breaking. It didn't appear to have come from the computer, but later I discovered that it had. I was listening to a streaming oldies program on the Internet. The computer continued streaming the station but about an hour later when I tried using Internet Explorer the computer shutdown. I turned it on but within a minute or two it would shutdown. Sometimes it would almost finish booting into Windows and other times it would shutdown before finishing the POST. I thought, dust, so did a good cleaning of fans and boards etc. but the problem still existed. For a second time I disconnected all the cables and put the computer where I could work on it. This bracket that holds the heat sink has protrusions at each corner with holes in them that holds springy pieces of metal tightly against the heat sink. One of the protrusions had broken and allowed the heat sink to not be tight against the heat sink. After scratching my head for a while, I managed to come up with a temporary repair but I'd like to replace the bracket if it's possible to purchase one. The computer has been working fine with my fix. I guess I should eventually clean the heat sink and CPU and apply new heat sink grease but that's something I can't do myself. How good are the pads that can be put on a CPU to transfer heat to the heat sink? Hope some of this makes sense. Thanks, Tom ========================= The list's FAQ's can be seen by sending an email to PCWorks-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with FAQ in the subject line. To unsubscribe, subscribe, set Digest or Vacation to on or off, go to //www.freelists.org/list/pcworks . You can also send an email to PCWorks-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with Unsubscribe in the subject line. Your member list settings can be found at //www.freelists.org/cgi-bin/lsg2.cgi/l=pcworks . Once logged in, you have access to numerous other email options. The list archives are located at //www.freelists.org/archives/pcworks/ . All email posted to the list will be placed there in the event anyone needs to look for previous posts. -zxdjhu-