[opendtv] Re: Test in New York
- From: Bob Miller <bob@xxxxxxxxxx>
- To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 17:35:31 -0400
I can't say anything about whose receivers these are until after the
test tomorrow when I will inform the companies what we think and they
can decide what they want to do.
That way I get to test receivers and I am not doing it for the public
good but to find one we can use. I think we will be saying good things
about both though since one is probably better than the other that
company might not want to be publicized as second best. We will see.
Bob Miller
John Willkie wrote:
>anybody have any idea what the dBu refers to? dB above 1 microvolt per
>meter sounds low and in appropriate, which would be dBuv.
>
>I always like hearing about better receivers. Is one of these the unit I
>heard about recently where one can put multiple cards in a single PC?
>
>John Willkie
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Bob Miller" <bob@xxxxxxxxxx>
>To: <opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2005 12:08 PM
>Subject: [opendtv] Re: Test in New York
>
>
>
>
>>John Willkie wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Being an engineer, I suspect that the numbers displayed were not dBu,
>>>
>>>
>which
>
>
>>>is the ratio between a desired and undesired signal. Maybe it was, IIRC,
>>>the best one can theoretically deliver with 8-VSB is something like 29.6
>>>
>>>
>dB
>
>
>>>(I can't remember at this point the relevant metric).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>It says on the UI 29.6 dbu for instance. Not saying it is just what it
>>
>>
>says.
>
>
>>>Also: without proper test equipment, you might not be able to understand
>>>
>>>
>why
>
>
>>>you cannot receive the Pax station. If what they're transmitting in
>>>Washington is any indication of the transmitter setup in NYC, their
>>>
>>>
>metadata
>
>
>>>does not comply with BASIC ATSC requirements. Without legal metadata,
>>>
>>>
>the
>
>
>>>receiver could be picking up the signal, but be incapable of rendering
>>>
>>>
>it.
>
>
>>>
>>>
>>I thought it might be such.
>>
>>
>>
>>>Don't compare apples to peaches. If a receiver doesn't have a signal
>>>strength output, it's a piece of shit: $125 PCI cards have this basic
>>>feature. Lacking it is an indication that it's numbers suck.
>>>
>>>John Willkie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Both of these receivers are far better than anything we tried a couple
>>of years ago. They may be as good as the LG prototype.
>>
>>Bob Miller
>>
>>
>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Bob Miller" <bob@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>>To: <opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2005 9:05 AM
>>>Subject: [opendtv] Re: Test in New York
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>I am not an engineer, wish I was, so I tend to test like a typical Joe
>>>>Sixpack. The dbu numbers were displayed on one card UI, I didn't see or
>>>>try to see them on the other.
>>>>
>>>>From memory the numbers were between 27 and 32 dbu for the channels
>>>>that were solid at 100. They were in the 24-26 dbu range for channels
>>>>that showed a dip below 100 and for channel 53 it was 31 dbu at 100 and
>>>>5 to 8 dbu when it showed 25%. Another time 53 was coming in at 60 to
>>>>80%. Don't remember what the dbu figure was at that time.
>>>>
>>>>Board A I would buy for my apartment. Hope it works for Mark's. I think
>>>>I would be tempted to start a business with board A. Hope it test as
>>>>well as the LG prototype which is the reason I have been bothering with
>>>>8-VSB at all this last year.
>>>>
>>>>Before Mark Aitken told me to check out the 5th gen LG prototype the
>>>>last thing on my mind was doing anything with 8-VSB and I thought USDTV
>>>>was a joke. Not necessarily now.
>>>>
>>>>Bob Miller
>>>>
>>>>Tom Barry wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Bob -
>>>>>
>>>>>I'll personally prefer the subjective results, a description of
>>>>>which channels are steady with no break-ups under which conditions.
>>>>>
>>>>>John is absolutely correct about the need for 'objective' numbers
>>>>>(if available) but I have used too many PCHD cards to believe
>>>>>there is any consistency in the numbers they display. Those
>>>>>displays are all over the map even for the same vendors. So of
>>>>>course please feel free to post any available numbers but I'll be
>>>>>mostly (and hopefully) awaiting the descriptions of what you do
>>>>>and see.
>>>>>
>>>>>That is, can you plop an antenna down on top of the TV and watch?
>>>>>
>>>>>- Tom
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>John Willkie wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Bob;
>>>>>>
>>>>>>If you want to be believed about even your "test" result do not give
>>>>>>subjective quality figures. Give us the SNR (all real receivers have
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>this
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>output) or even the BER (bit error rate) or the number of uncorrected
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>blocks
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>per second/minute/hour/day.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>You've previously mentioned the discrepancy between the quality metric
>>>>>>between units of the same or different manufacturer, yet you persist.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>I
>
>
>>>>>>cannot read any more thant the first CBS line below, because you are
>>>>>>engaging in the AA definition of lunacy: doing the same thing the same
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>way,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>and expecting different results. Provide the above objective figures,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>or
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>nothing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>John Willkie
>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>From: "Bob Miller" <bob@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>To: <opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2005 8:08 PM
>>>>>>Subject: [opendtv] Test in New York
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>As I said we will test at Mark's apartment on Monday. In the meantime
>>>>>>>this is what I got today in my apartment on Roosevelt Island from the
>>>>>>>two PCI cards.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Doing both because conditions are different today. Large
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>thunderstorms
>
>
>>>>>>>came across the city as I tested.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>56 CBS solid at 100 on both
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>53 strange solid on A at 100 all the time with
>>>>>>>different directions on dual bow tie antenna but not on B. When storm
>>>>>>>was at worst I got 100 on B with antenna
>>>>>>>pointing at ESB but couldn't get it anywhere after storm with
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>readings
>
>
>>>>>>>in area of 25. 53 is on Conde Nast
>>>>>>>building in Times SQ not on ESB
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>45 ABC solid at 100 on both
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>44 WNYW solid at 100 on both
>>>>>>> WWOR
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>40 WXTV solid at 100 on both
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>38 WNYW solid on A at 100 nothing on B
>>>>>>> WWOR
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>33 WPIX solid at 100 on both
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>28 WNBC solid at 100 on both
>>>>>>> WXPLUS
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>12 WPIX solid at 100 on both
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>30 Nothing on A and 99-100 on B but with NO video
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I have high hopes for A at Mark's.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>B was definitly not as good as A with 53. B also had some problem
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>with
>
>
>>>>>>>30/38. A didn't see Paxson's 30 at all while B did but there was no
>>>>>>>video. A saw 38 from Secaucus NJ at 100 while B saw nothing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Bob Miller
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>
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