[opendtv] Re: Post on alt.tv.tech.hdtv of interest today
- From: Bob Miller <bob@xxxxxxxxxx>
- To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 15:22:44 -0400
John Willkie wrote:
>I do know -- at least I have had several email exchanges with -- Pat; we have
>common memberships on several industry groups and at one point I needed help
>with their forest of acronyms.
>
>You continue to be clueless. MPEGIF is an advocacy group and as such does no
>standards or engineering. Unlike, say, MPEG or DVB or SMPTE or ATSC or ARIB.
>
>
Being new to the industry I would be the first to inform you that I am
clueless as to much of what you suggest. But where did you get a clue
that I was suggesting that MPEGIF was a doing engineering or standards.
I believe what I said was that I was in touch with both Harmonics and
MPEGIF and nothing more. As an advocacy group they would be able to
inform me of how they could help with the issue of MPEG4 AVC or whatever
codec might be considered as a replacement for MPEG2.
>You have -- to be polite -- uncohesive, events-driven "arguments" (mostly
>rationalizations and FUD) on the politics, engineering, and social
>environment that broadcasters are in. And, without exception, these arguments
>are entirely devoid of understanding, facts or anything close to
>reality. Hundreds of people on this list know it; they talk about you behind
>your back.
>
>
One reason I post here is to learn so you and those hundreds of people
that know more than I can fill me in when I am way off the mark. The
above from you is meant to put me in my place and to inform me that you
are far more knowledgeable than I. That's OK but not that helpful.
>Maybe they do that with me as well, but when I am approached at industry
>gatherings by fellow list members, it's mostly "you seem to try to keep
>everybody else honest." (Hey, if it seems that way ...)
>
>As to your arguments about fear among broadcasters, you are entirely confused.
> Broadcasters are less fearful of Congres than the other way
>around; most people get their political news from broadcasting. There is a
>general fear of the unknown future, a fear that would be MUCH GREATER were
>there to be two digital paths for them to contemplate. (That's why I told Nat
>Ostroff a few weeks back that to get DVB permissive in the U.S., all the
>angles need to be worked out in advance)
>
>
One thing about your post that does bother me is that you often put
words in others mouths that they did not say or imply. When I said that
broadcasters were fearfully of Congress I did not also say that Congress
was not fearful of broadcasters nor did I imply that. It would appear as
I have told broadcasters that Congress is a lot less fearful of them
than in the past.
I think, in my ignorance, that this is a good time for broadcasters to
confront Congress and the FCC and take it to their customers and would
be customers OTA. Inform the public of what OTA could be. From Pravda
04/07/2005...
"Indeed, prospective digital television will offer as wider range of
channels and programs as commercial satellite television operators do today"
http://ad.pravda.ru/cgi-bin/iframe?11,15,39663
Whether accurate or not it is true that broadcasters could be doing a
lot more with OTA than they are.
Congress and the FCC are supposed to be interested in more competition
for runaway cable bills at least according to the last Chairman of the
FCC. This could be an issue that Congress could latch onto if presented
right.
Bob Miller
>John Willkie
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Bob Miller" <bob@xxxxxxxxxx>
>To: <opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 10:02 PM
>Subject: [opendtv] Re: Post on alt.tv.tech.hdtv of interest today
>
>
>
>
>>I don't know Pat but others from Harmonic and MPEGIF have contacted me
>>the last few days on the subject.
>>
>>A note on conversations I am having. Everybody wants receiver standards
>>and or to be able to use COFDM and MPEG4. Virtual consensus. But
>>everyone is still afraid to raise their hand unless everyone else does.
>>No one wants to be tarred and feathered like Sinclair.
>>
>>Congress therefore thinks broadcasters are happy with what they have.
>>Actually broadcasters seem to be just scared s**tless of Congress just
>>as they were in 2000. Maybe they should be.
>>
>>But am making progress.
>>
>>Worries are the same as five years ago.
>>
>>If they talk modulation they get hit with charge of delaying the
>>transition. I think the delay is 8-VSB and the solutions is anything but.
>>
>>They say that in the asking for MPEG4 they risk Congress taking back
>>spectrum because they don't need so much. That was true for MPEG2 also.
>>And I don't think there is much risk of Congress wanting to go that far.
>>They just want to get the transition over with and MPEG4 could help. And
>>the Congress we have today is not the one we had in 2000 nor do they
>>seem to see the issues that same and there are new dogs in this fight
>>who have new ideas, want the transition over with and have the means and
>>money to fight.
>>
>>And each broadcaster has at least one other problem. But this can be
>>done, at least real hearings on real problems.
>>
>>One thing I have suggested. If MPEG4 was allowed obviously all current
>>receivers become obsolete so we could then talk modulation. If COFDM and
>>MPEG4 both were adopted the US could do what Australia is doing,
>>multicast SD and HD versions of the same content. OZ was criticized for
>>doing this because it is inherently inefficient.
>>
>>The thing is that the multicast with MPEG4 would be more efficient than
>>the current MPEG2 HDTV single cast. That is the SD and HD multicast
>>would take up no more room and most likely much less room than the one
>>HD signal does with MPEG2 and offer better quality and more headroom at
>>the same time.
>>
>>And if we did COFDM and MPEG4 and multicasting of an SD and HD of same
>>content we could use very inexpensive COFDM SD receivers as the
>>converter boxes the House is talking about. Right now in quantity those
>>COFDM converter boxes would cost something less than the $50 retail
>>price of some SD boxes in the UK. France has $70 retail price SD COFDM
>>STB's for sale days after they started broadcasting COFDM SD. Who knows
>>how cheap they will get over the next year or so.
>>
>>Least expensive HD COFDM receivers would not be that much more
>>expensive. Probably for as little as $100 to $120 retail.
>>
>>And over some period of time we could probably more easily retire the
>>"same program" multicast idea than we are now retiring NTSC. And over
>>that same period of time MPEG4 will mature into a codec capable of 4
>>times that of MPEG2. (got that from Harmonic a while back)
>>
>>The cost of 10 million SD COFDM converters being contemplated in
>>Congress would be about one third the cost of the contemplated LG
>>promise of $100 8-VSB converters in 2007. If we can even rely on a
>>company, LG, that just dropped out of the STB 8-VSB market altogether to
>>make any such converter. Maybe in fact LG would be more happy making
>>COFDM converters since they are happier making COFDM HD boxes for OZ
>>while dropping 8-VSB receivers in the US. Could we hope for such logic
>>to prevail?
>>
>>Today not 2007 you could most likely buy 10 million COFDM converters for
>>$35 each or is it possible even less? That would make Congress's
>>subsidized program cost a lot less. 10 million at $100 is $1 billion
>>after all while 10 million at $35 is $350 million. And Congress would
>>not have to send a installation technician with a rotorized 30 foot
>>antenna along with those $35 COFDM converters like the would have to
>>with those $100 LG converters.
>>
>>Of course that would be a perfect post Iraq contract for Haliburton. The
>>LG converter antenna installation contract that is.
>>
>>Bob Miller
>>
>>
>>
>>Ron Economos wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>The ATSC TSG/S6 group is actively working on
>>>H.264 and VC-1. Maybe you should contact
>>>Pat Wadell of Harmonic/Divicom to avoid duplicated
>>>efforts?
>>>
>>>Ron
>>>
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