Hi:
If you want a headache, google “Song Sparrow ring species”. Should be one of
the top options. Anyone who wishes to summarize for me, please do. And saying
“subspecies are complicated” is not an acceptable summary. Tried to read that a
few months ago.
Bob Archer
On Mar 8, 2019, at 1:14 PM, Steve Harder <stevenedwardharder@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Dave,
For those of us less versed in this discussion, could you please define the
criteria used to determine when a group of individuals from a known species
is or can be construed as a subspecies? Does a certain amount of geographic
isolation matter?
Thanks,
Steve Harder
Corvallis
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 6, 2019, at 11:02 PM, David Irons <llsdirons@xxxxxxx> wrote:
Bob O'Brien,
I'll start with the low-hanging fruit. My last name is Irons and not Iron,
therefore the proper way to apply a possessive apostrophe to my name is
either Irons's or Irons'. Adding the second "s" tends to be the preferred
way when adding possessive apostrophes to last names ending with an "s"
(i.e. Harris's Sparrow or Harris's Hawk). At least once a year in this forum
someone slides the possessive apostrophe over between the "n" and the "s" in
my last name. Sorry, but it's a pet peeve.
As for intentionally assigning birds to subspecies incorrectly as a means to
draw attention to them, I seriously doubt that this is a preferred protocol
if one were to query the eBird project managers. As it is, the eBird
database is awash with checklists where observers have incorrectly assigned
birds to subspecies, usually on the basis of geography and nothing else.
These designations are often being made by birders who don't know the field
marks of the subspecies that they are reporting. There are of course some
subspecies that are readily identifiable in the field, but most are not.
Frankly, I wish that the eBird taxonomy offered fewer subspecific options,
especially for species like Orange-crowned Warbler and even Song Sparrow.
That would certainly make the reviewer's job a lot easier.
Offering up "melodia/atlantica" as a reporting option for Song Sparrow on
the West Coast is non-sensical in my opinion, especially when there are a
number of subspecies that occur west of the Rockies that resemble the truly
"eastern" forms. As we have seen over the past few days, even those of us
with a keen interest in trying to figure out which population the Sauvie
Island Song Sparrow originates from are struggling to sort that out. Imagine
an eBird reviewer who is not invested in knowing every detail about Song
Sparrow subspecies being asked to review reports for subspecies that aren't
readily sortable. A frustrating fool's errand to be sure.
With regard to Song Sparrow, I think a much better way to go would be to
offer options like "dark reddish PNW/Pacific Coastal form" and "pale
interior/eastern form." This would allow observers to designate that a bird
is not of the expected dark PNW type without incorrectly appending a
subspecies designation. For Orange-crowned Warbler all subspecies options
should hidden unless the observer clicks on "show rarities." I don't know
more than ten Oregon birders who pay much attention to Orange-crowned
Warbler subspecies beyond noticing that some are gray-headed. I've spent the
last dozen years or so intently studying and photographing Orange-crowned
Warblers all over the West and in south Texas and I still see lots of
individuals that I cannot assign to subspecies.
Contributing photos to the MacCauley online library (via attaching them to
eBird checklists) is a great way to archive photos. As Bob Archer notes, we
do a rather poor job of taking and archiving photos of our common birds. If
someone was researching the distribution of Song Sparrows with a focus on
appearance, they would hopefully start in the photo galleries rather than
trying to find checklists with out-of-range subspecies reported. In many
cases the latter reports lack photos entirely or don't have useful ones. If
it was me, I wouldn't bother with what observers say they saw. I would start
by surfing the photo galleries where I would be more likely to find evidence
that I could examine objectively.
Another option would be to write up articles or short notes/photo essays
about interesting birds like this and publish them in Oregon Birds or
Western Birds. If North American Birds continues to be a viable journal,
that would be another option for archiving interesting records like this.
Dave Irons
Beaverton, OR
From: obol-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <obol-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> on behalf of
Robert O'Brien <baro@xxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2019 10:36 PM
To: Bob Archer
Cc: obol
Subject: [obol] Re: Some thoughts and research on the "out-of-towner" Song
Sparrow wintering along Rentenaar Road (Sauvie Island)
Dave Iron's comments are well taken as to uncertain naming of subspecies.
And, they are more or less in line with an advisory
for Orange-crowned Warbler
See
https://ebird.org/pnw/news/orange-crowned-warblers-oreothlypis-celata-in-the-pacific-northwest/
However, if the sighting/photos are just named 'Song Sparrow' then they
likely would never be found by any future searcher/researcher
looking specifically for the distribution and vagrancy of specific races,
unless such a person searched through the likely huge number of song sparrow
photographs on eBird, McCauley Library and came across an usual photograph.
On the other hand, it the photo was named incorrectly as to subspecies then
in future it would be be much easier to find, especially if a searcher
just looked at the distribution/sightings maps where it would be 'out of
place' (as a vagrant) on the map. That researcher could then decide whether
it
was named correctly as to subspecies, and perhaps change the subspecies name
to the correct one if necessary.
Now, if there were no photos to submit I would agree with the 'no-name'
nomenclature because, even from a description alone it would
be difficult to know if the subspecific ID was correct.
Bob OBrien
Bob OBrien
On Tue, Mar 5, 2019 at 2:35 PM Bob Archer <rabican1@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi: I would be curious if any birders from western Montana, Utah, Idaho or
Alberta would consider this bird a strange looking Song Sparrow. If it is
strange to them, then I would think a CA bird is better solution. Based on
zero reliable evidence, just me using Search Photo feature in ebird, the
rufous coloring in montana is fairly reliable, but I can find more brown/
black the farther east I search. Alberta has a different ssp but looked
similar. I have not given up on it being montana yet. Though the lack of
any rufous in stripes and malar is a huge issue for it being montana, from
my view.
Anyone know anybody in the interior west?
Bob Archer
On Mar 5, 2019, at 11:31 AM, David Irons <LLSDIRONS@xxxxxxx> wrote:
In private and back channel
discussions about this bird multiple people have raised the possibility
that it might of the subspecies M. m. heermanni, which is a relatively
sedentary population in central to southern California. I had considered
this as a possibility, as heermanni seems to be a good match in terms of
appearance. Interestingly, there is a virtually identical bird wintering
along Bond Lane near the Eugene Airport. It seems unlikely that
non-migratory birds would wander north in Fall from California, but perhaps
there was a weather or fire-related dispersal. I like the fact that this
bird has created so much interest.
Dave Irons
Beaverton, OR
