Savannah for sure. Also Marsh Wren. I was just in San Diego last week
chatting with Phil Unitt about Marsh Wren variation. He did a great little
publication on them some years back.
Alan Contreras
acontrer56@xxxxxxxxx
Eugene, Oregon
www.alanlcontreras.com
http://osupress.oregonstate.edu/book/edge-of-awe
On Mar 7, 2019, at 12:02 PM, Wayne Hoffman <whoffman@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi -
It will be important to get photo representation from breeding season, as
well as other times of year. Some counties may get more winterers of
different ssp. (Columbia Gorge to Wallowa e.g.?),
Others (Wasco, Lane, Douglas, Klamath?) may benefit from within-county
stratification.
Three other questions: How does this interface with Doug Robinson's Oregon
2020?, Would coordinating this be a role for an enrollee in OSU's new
ornithology emphasis program?, and Which other species would be best suited
for this kind of treatment? Wrentit? Savannah Sparrow? Common Yellowthroat?
Wayne
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: Robert O'Brien <baro@xxxxxxx>
Date: 3/7/19 2:09 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: David Irons <llsdirons@xxxxxxx>
Cc: Bob Archer <rabican1@xxxxxxxxx>, obol <obol@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [obol] Re: Some thoughts and research on the "out-of-towner" Song
Sparrow wintering along Rentenaar Road (Sauvie Island)
Bob Archer presents a very attractive project for Oregon birders, obtaining
good photos of song sparrows from all Oregon counties. This is especially
attractive because it would allow non rabid birders to participate;
with feeder shots being an attractive approach.
perhaps OBA could sponsor this, perhaps even giving a small Grant to someone
who would collate them all and put them on the web so that when any County
had a sufficient number no further effort would be necessary in that county.
except for those individuals that don't fit the mold for that County which
would slowly begin to accumulate over time.
this would be somewhat analogous to the prior collection of Museum specimens
which allowed subspecies to be named and described in the first place. but
no animals would be harmed, as they say nowadays for movie credits.
bob obrien
On Wednesday, March 6, 2019, David Irons <llsdirons@xxxxxxx
<mailto:llsdirons@xxxxxxx>> wrote:
Bob O'Brien,
I'll start with the low-hanging fruit. My last name is Irons and not Iron,
therefore the proper way to apply a possessive apostrophe to my name is
either Irons's or Irons'. Adding the second "s" tends to be the preferred
oopway when adding possessive apostrophes to last names ending with an "s"
(i.e. Harris's Sparrow or Harris's Hawk). At least once a year in this
forum someone slides the possessive apostrophe over between the "n" and the
"s" in my last name. Sorry, but it's a pet peeve.
As for intentionally assigning birds to subspecies incorrectly as a means
to draw attention to them, I seriously doubt that this is a preferred
protocol if one were to query the eBird project managers. As it is, the
eBird database is awash with checklists where observers have incorrectly
assigned birds to subspecies, usually on the basis of geography and nothing
else. These designations are often being made by birders who don't know the
field marks of the subspecies that they are reporting. There are of course
some subspecies that are readily identifiable in the field, but most are
not. Frankly, I wish that the eBird taxonomy offered fewer subspecific
options, especially for species like Orange-crowned Warbler and even Song
Sparrow. That would certainly make the reviewer's job a lot easier.
Offering up "melodia/atlantica" as a reporting option for Song Sparrow on
the West Coast is non-sensical in my opinion, especially when there are a
number of subspecies that occur west of the Rockies that resemble the truly
"eastern" forms. As we have seen over the past few days, even those of us
with a keen interest in trying to figure out which population the Sauvie
Island Song Sparrow originates from are struggling to sort that out.
Imagine an eBird reviewer who is not invested in knowing every detail about
Song Sparrow subspecies being asked to review reports for subspecies that
aren't readily sortable. A frustrating fool's errand to be sure.
With regard to Song Sparrow, I think a much better way to go would be to
offer options like "dark reddish PNW/Pacific Coastal form" and "pale
interior/eastern form." This would allow observers to designate that a bird
is not of the expected dark PNW type without incorrectly appending a
subspecies designation. For Orange-crowned Warbler all subspecies options
should hidden unless the observer clicks on "show rarities." I don't know
more than ten Oregon birders who pay much attention to Orange-crowned
Warbler subspecies beyond noticing that some are gray-headed. I've spent
the last dozen years or so intently studying and photographing
Orange-crowned Warblers all over the West and in south Texas and I still
see lots of individuals that I cannot assign to subspecies.
Contributing photos to the MacCauley online library (via attaching them to
eBird checklists) is a great way to archive photos. As Bob Archer notes, we
do a rather poor job of taking and archiving photos of our common birds. If
someone was researching the distribution of Song Sparrows with a focus on
appearance, they would hopefully start in the photo galleries rather than
trying to find checklists with out-of-range subspecies reported. In many
cases the latter reports lack photos entirely or don't have useful ones. If
it was me, I wouldn't bother with what observers say they saw. I would
start by surfing the photo galleries where I would be more likely to find
evidence that I could examine objectively.
Another option would be to write up articles or short notes/photo essays
about interesting birds like this and publish them in Oregon Birds or
Western Birds. If North American Birds continues to be a viable journal,
that would be another option for archiving interesting records like this.
Dave Irons
Beaverton, OR
________________________________
From: obol-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:obol-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<obol-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:obol-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> on behalf of
Robert O'Brien <baro@xxxxxxx <mailto:baro@xxxxxxx>>
Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2019 10:36 PM
To: Bob Archer
Cc: obol
Subject: [obol] Re: Some thoughts and research on the "out-of-towner" Song
Sparrow wintering along Rentenaar Road (Sauvie Island)
Dave Iron's comments are well taken as to uncertain naming of subspecies.
And, they are more or less in line with an advisory
for Orange-crowned Warbler
See
https://ebird.org/pnw/news/orange-crowned-warblers-oreothlypis-celata-in-the-pacific-northwest/
<https://ebird.org/pnw/news/orange-crowned-warblers-oreothlypis-celata-in-the-pacific-northwest/>
However, if the sighting/photos are just named 'Song Sparrow' then they
likely would never be found by any future searcher/researcher
looking specifically for the distribution and vagrancy of specific races,
unless such a person searched through the likely huge number of song
sparrow photographs on eBird, McCauley Library and came across an usual
photograph.
On the other hand, it the photo was named incorrectly as to subspecies then
in future it would be be much easier to find, especially if a searcher
just looked at the distribution/sightings maps where it would be 'out of
place' (as a vagrant) on the map. That researcher could then decide
whether it
was named correctly as to subspecies, and perhaps change the subspecies
name to the correct one if necessary.
Now, if there were no photos to submit I would agree with the 'no-name'
nomenclature because, even from a description alone it would
be difficult to know if the subspecific ID was correct.
Bob OBrien
Bob OBrien
On Tue, Mar 5, 2019 at 2:35 PM Bob Archer <rabican1@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:rabican1@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Hi: I would be curious if any birders from western Montana, Utah, Idaho or
Alberta would consider this bird a strange looking Song Sparrow. If it is
strange to them, then I would think a CA bird is better solution. Based on
zero reliable evidence, just me using Search Photo feature in ebird, the
rufous coloring in montana is fairly reliable, but I can find more brown/
black the farther east I search. Alberta has a different ssp but looked
similar. I have not given up on it being montana yet. Though the lack of
any rufous in stripes and malar is a huge issue for it being montana,
from my view.
Anyone know anybody in the interior west?
Bob Archer
On Mar 5, 2019, at 11:31 AM, David Irons <LLSDIRONS@xxxxxxx
<mailto:LLSDIRONS@xxxxxxx>> wrote:
In private and back channel
discussions about this bird multiple people have raised the possibility
that it might of the subspecies M. m. heermanni, which is a relatively
sedentary population in central to southern California. I had considered
this as a possibility, as heermanni seems to be a good match in terms of
appearance. Interestingly, there is a virtually identical bird wintering
along Bond Lane near the Eugene Airport. It seems unlikely that
non-migratory birds would wander north in Fall from California, but perhaps
there was a weather or fire-related dispersal. I like the fact that this
bird has created so much interest.
Dave Irons
Beaverton, OR
