Steve at al., As Wayne Hoffman wrote earlier, sorting out Swainson's Thrushes is not too hard given a decent view. Birds of both the Russet-backed and Olive-backed groups occur in Oregon, with Russet-backed being the expected form from at least the crest of the Cascades west to the Pacific Ocean. If you look at the Oregon Breeding Bird Atlas (BBA) map for Swainson's Thrush in Birds of Oregon: A General Reference (BOGR), you'll notice that there is a significant gap in the distribution of breeding Swainson's in Oregon. Western Oregon (the area west of the Cascades) is blanketed with hexagons where summering Swainson's were recorded, with that blanket extending across the Cascades crest into the westernmost reaches (higher wetter slopes) of the four eastside counties that abut the Cascades (Wasco, Jefferson, Deschutes, and Klamath). Then there is a rather spotty distribution of hexagons where breeding season Swainson's were recorded (during the 1995-1999 surveys) until you get over into the Blue and Wallowa Mtns, where there is a pretty solid blanket of detections. Unfortunately, the BOGR account doesn't really address which type occurs in the Blues and Wallowas and perhaps the Ochoco Mtns from looking at the map, but I'm presuming that these are Olive-backed birds. I agree with Wayne's suggestion that the birds you saw were probably of the Pacific Coastal Russet-backed group. It is certainly worth paying close attention to Swainson's Thrushes when you see them, particularly those found east of the Cascades crest. Olive-backed birds were recently discovered breeding west of the Cascades crest in nw. Washington and it may be that there are some areas along the crest of the Oregon Cascades where both types can be found. Some of these questions have received very little if any study aside from specimen review. With a decent digital camera and some focused effort any of us can endeavor to answer such questions. I just spent much of the past weekend birding in southern Morrow County, which extends into the westernmost section of the Blue Mountains. We saw and heard no Swainson's Thrushes, despite being in habitats that seemed reasonably suitable for this species. More surprisingly, we saw and heard no Hermit Thrushes either. Our only Catharus thrush of the weekend was a Veery that we found right in the town of Lexington. On Friday, Jim Danzenbaker, who was traveling with us, saw an Olive-backed Swainson's Thrush at Deschutes River State Park in Sherman County. I tried to relocate the bird, but never saw it. As for White-breasted Nuthatches, birds found in the Willamette, Umpqua, and Rogue Valleys are generally assigned to the subspecies aculeata. Steve Mlodinow, who is currently working on an article about the identification and distribution of western White-breasted Nuthatches told me recently that the birds in extreme western Klamath County (where there are some oaks) are also aculeata. Birds that I photographed last year at Running Y Ranch do appear to best fit aculeata. Generally, birds found east of the Cascades have been assigned to the subspecies tenuissima, but if aculeata is found east of the Cascades in Klamath it may not be safe to presume that birds in western Deschutes Co. are tenuissima. I photographed a White-breasted in southern Morrow Co. over the weekend and I am anxious to take a closer look at those photos to see if that bird can be assigned to subspecies. The Cascades are an intriguing zone of contact for many species and subspecies pairs whose ranges tend to be defined by a wet slope-dry slope division. The obvious poster children in this regard are the Hermit Warbler/Townsend's Warbler and Red-naped Sapsucker/Red-naped Sapsucker pairs. We tend to pay closer attention when full species are involved, but some of the subspecies pairs are equally intriguing. There seems to be an imminent split of the White-breasted Nuthatches on the horizon and I've heard some lesser rumblings about splitting the Olive-backed and Russet-backed Swainson's Thrushes into two species. Sorting the nuthatches takes a practiced eye, but separating the two Swainson's Thrush groups is not particularly challenging. If you look at the BirdFellow ID gallery at the link below, the first two images were both taken in Oregon. The first, is a Olive-backed migrant that I photographed at Malheur HQ during Memorial Day Weekend a couple years ago. The second is a Russet-backed bird that I photographed at Grand Island, Yamhill County. http://www.birdfellow.com/birds/swainsons-thrush-catharus-ustulatus#/idPhotos Dave Irons Portland, OR From: sbkornfeld@xxxxxxx To: obol@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; cobol@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [obol] Black Butte Swamp thrush question Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2014 18:11:14 -0700 Greetings. Birded the Black Butte swamp this am coming in from the Glaze Meadow side. Very active with abundant vireos, flycatchers, warblers and woodpeckers. My hope was Veery with previous reports from years past. No luck with Veery. Swainson's Thrush were scattered in the swamp. Hoping to sort out Interior West versus Pacific. Are these Swainson's spill overs from the other side of the Cascades or part of the interior west population? Similar question to White-breasted Nuthatch and a few others. thanks Steve Kornfeld Bend