Bob I fear you are right binning looks about all it is fit for. They even corrugated the panels to thwart me there. The new one has a 20 year guarantee on the plate work, 10 years on the pump and motor. "Never had one break down" says the lady. "So is anything not covered" I ask. "Only the timer unit" she says. "Doesn't that breakdown" I say. "No" she says. "So will you give me a 10 year guarantee for it all if I pay cash?" "No" Nuff sed as LBSC would say MODEL ENGINEERING DISCUSSION LIST. To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list, send a blank email to, modeleng-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word "unsubscribe" in the subject line.