[macvoiceover] Re: Voice of DAISY
- From: Bryan Smart <bryansmart@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 19:42:11 -0400
Yes, but the problem is that you don't understand the difference in the task.
Developers can make an accessible app, and blind people can use VoiceOver to
review and interact with the screen. That model, though, means that speech is
strictly interogative. However, what if your app needs to speak a message
without the user directly requesting that information? Tim's Reader
automatically announces what appears on the display of a separate device. A
blind user won't want to constantly be moving their hands from one device to
the other in order to ask the iPhone what has appeared on the screen of the
control surface device. Similarly, imagine if GPS applications couldn't
automatically tell you when you're approaching a turn? You'd have to constantly
keep touching the screen in order to know when the turn was approaching. This
is why direct TTS support is necessary. GPS apps solve this problem by
licensing a 3rd party TTS engine, and jacking up the price that they charge you
in order to recover that cost. Seems like a waste, though, since there is a
synth already on the iPhone.
Bryan
-----Original Message-----
From: macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of David Poehlman
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 8:32 AM
To: macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [macvoiceover] Re: Voice of DAISY
interesting, people develop accessible applications that work with vo just fine.
On Jun 25, 2010, at 8:23 AM, Bryan Smart wrote:
David, that is what I said. There is no public way to use the TTS on iOS. Tim's
self-voicing app, as far as we know, would require that he purchase his own
license for a speech synth/library, and then he'd have to pass along that cost
in the prices of the app.
There should be a way to use the built-in TTS on iOS, or to speak through
VoiceOver, but, as far as we know, that isn't possible.
Bryan
-----Original Message-----
From: macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of David Poehlman
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 9:35 AM
To: macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [macvoiceover] Re: Voice of DAISY
good question for the apple apps developer site.
On Jun 24, 2010, at 8:53 AM, Tim Burgess wrote:
OK, fair comment and it shows how much research I've got left to do - is there
script support or a published API to access the TTS functionality?
Best wishes.
Tim Burgess
Raised Bar Ltd
Phone: +44 (0)1827 719822
Mobile: 07989 486976
Web: http://www.raisedbar.net
Facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Atherstone-United-Kingdom/Raised-Bar-Ltd/12023
4896800
Don't forget to vote for improved access to music and music technology at
http://www.raisedbar.net/petition.htm
-----Original Message-----
From: macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of David Poehlman
Sent: 24 June 2010 13:14
To: macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [macvoiceover] Re: Voice of DAISY
if it is a self voicing app, it only needs the tts not voiceover.
On Jun 24, 2010, at 7:57 AM, Tim Burgess wrote:
Hi David,
You're only missing the context of the conversation. Bryan's been testing a PC
application that I've written to help VI musicians and I'm examining the
practicalities of porting it to the Mac and/or Iphone. This is a self-voicing
application, so the ability to tell VoiceOver to announce a particular string
is essential for such a project to fly.
Best wishes.
Tim Burgess
Raised Bar Ltd
Phone: +44 (0)1827 719822
Mobile: 07989 486976
Web: http://www.raisedbar.net
Facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Atherstone-United-Kingdom/Raised-Bar-Ltd/12023
4896800
Don't forget to vote for improved access to music and music technology at
http://www.raisedbar.net/petition.htm
-----Original Message-----
From: macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of David Poehlman
Sent: 24 June 2010 12:17
To: macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [macvoiceover] Re: Voice of DAISY
am I missing something?
On Jun 24, 2010, at 6:19 AM, Tim Burgess wrote:
Bryan,
Since I was the one who told you that this situation has changed with OS4, I've
been unable to find the page where I read it - think I may be becoming
delusional with age, but I'll keep looking as it directly affects an
application I'm planning to develop.
Best wishes.
Tim Burgess
Raised Bar Ltd
Phone: +44 (0)1827 719822
Mobile: 07989 486976
Web: http://www.raisedbar.net
Facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Atherstone-United-Kingdom/Raised-Bar-Ltd/12023
4896800
Don't forget to vote for improved access to music and music technology at
http://www.raisedbar.net/petition.htm
-----Original Message-----
From: macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Bryan Smart
Sent: 23 June 2010 18:21
To: macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [macvoiceover] Re: Voice of DAISY
So, it doesn't support Daisy 2 or 3 standards, but
"Voice of DAISY cannot play a DAISY audio book that does not completely conform
to DAISY 2.02 standard."
That sounds confusing.
I think that the bottom line is that it only plays audio books. It doesn't
support TTS, so can't play anything other than audio.
The nonprogrammer types on the list might not be aware, but, unlike desktop
software on OS X or Windows, iPhone OS doesn't provide any way for an
application to speak through the system's global speech synthesizer. It is
possible for an app to do this (Apple software does) but you must use private
APIs, which Apple doesn't allow in apps that are published on the app store. It
also isn't possible for an accessible app to speak through VoiceOver's voice,
like is possible for OS X or Windows apps to do with their screen readers. So,
if you're making an app, and you want your app to speak, you must license a
text-to-speech engine to be specifically used by your app. Since you must pass
that licensing cost along to your users, that is why those talking apps tend to
cost more than most apps
I don't know the exact reason for this. My only guess is that Apple has a
special license with Nuance that gives them distribution rights to Vocalizer at
an extremely low per-unit cost, with the qualification that they only use it
with Apple software. Nuance, for example, will happily sell an developer a
license to use Vocalizer, which is already installed on all of the newer Apple
mobile devices.
Someone told me that the TTS situation had changed in iOS 4. Supposedly, apps
can now speak directly with the system voice. However, I've been unable to find
any official confirmation of this, or technical docs on how to accomplish it.
Until then, though, these book readers will either be missing any Daisy text
support, or else will have to jack up their prices to pay for a speech synth
license. Is too bad. There is a lot more Daisy material out there in text form
than audio.
Bryan
-----Original Message-----
From: macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of David Poehlman
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2010 6:43 AM
To: macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [macvoiceover] Re: Voice of DAISY
well, what it supports seems clear from the page:
Voice of DAISY
About Voice of DAISY
Voice of DAISY (VOD) is a DAISY audio book player that supports multimedia
DAISY. DAISY (Digital Accessible Information System) is an international
standard for the people who have difficulty in reading ordinary printed
materials including those with visual impairment or dyslexia to "read"
books. By using Voice of DAISY, you can play and listen to DAISY format audio
books.
Type of Supported DAISY Audio Books
By Voice of DAISY, you can play DAISY audio books of "Full audio with NCC only"
and "Full audio and full text" that are defined by DAISY 2.02.
Restrictions
Voice of DAISY has the following restrictions:
Voice of DAISY does not support DAISY 2.0 and DAISY 3 standards.
Voice of DAISY does not support the following DAISY audio books and you cannot
play those by Voice of DAISY: "Full audio with Title element only,"
"Full audio with NCC partial text," "Full text and some audio," and "Full text
and no audio."
Voice of DAISY cannot play audio files recorded by ADPCM2 (codec) that is
unique to DAISY.
Voice of DAISY cannot play a DAISY audio book that does not completely conform
to DAISY 2.02 standard.
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