[lit-ideas] Re: off-list
- From: "Julie Krueger" <juliereneb@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 22:38:39 -0600
Ish. I'm sorry. These reply and reply-all's are beyond annoying.
Please forgive.
J
On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 10:33 PM, Ursula Stange <Ursula@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Hi Julie, I think your question is accidentally misdirected. Intended
> for someone else? I read everything...couldn't make it through breakfast
> without reading the back of the cereal box. Blame literature for who I
> am....and so forth...
>
> Maybe ask Veronica???
> all best,
> Ursula
>
> Julie Krueger wrote:
>
>> Please, I know this is somewhat intrusive, but would you be willing to
>> tell
>> me just a little about your kid-hood and why the lack of reading? I would
>> be very grateful.
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 2:30 PM, Veronica Caley <molleo1@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> <That's not to say literature is useless, it has a place, and I like
>>> literature. It's just not particularly useful, that's all.>
>>>
>>> I find literature very useful. It helps shed light on lives I can't live
>>> because I can only live my own. It teaches what life was like in other
>>> times and places. It teaches that some behaviors are not acceptable
>>> because
>>> it is bad for society and for oneself.
>>>
>>> Sometimes people ask me who my favorite teacher was.
>>> I always say that they are the ones who taught me to read, which in my
>>> case
>>> were several, in as much as at ten years old I couldn't read in any
>>> language. I grieve over the fact that I don't remember any of their
>>> names.
>>> I had no idea what treasure they were imparting.
>>>
>>> Veronica
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> *From:* Andy <mimi.erva@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> *To:* lit-ideas <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> *Sent:* Saturday, November 01, 2008 7:26 AM
>>> *Subject:* [lit-ideas] Re: one of Exit Ghost's political points
>>>
>>>
>>> --- On *Sat, 11/1/08, Mike Geary <atlas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>* wrote:
>>>
>>> >>Disillusionment is just divesting one's self of illusions.
>>>
>>> Mike: Well, yes, by definition, I guess.
>>>
>>>
>>> Andy: I'll take definition. I think you came to bury Cesar by
>>> underhandedly praising him with the slur of 'maturity', some horrible,
>>> undefined condition which presumably allows one to see reality as opposed
>>> to
>>> this wondrous place called illusion.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Illusions in my opinion are built on sadness and anger.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Mike: Really? I'd say they're mostly built on beliefs that have little
>>> or
>>> no relationship to reality. What the hell reality is, I have no idea.
>>> But
>>> if something doesn't work, it's probably not anchored in reality. That's
>>> a
>>> transcendental truth, just ask Walter.
>>>
>>>
>>> Andy: The underlying question being, why would one develop beliefs that
>>> have little or no relationship to reality unless reality were the
>>> condition
>>> one were escaping? One does not escape good feelings. As far as what is
>>> reality, reality is that boring place where people see the world,
>>> themselves and each other for what they are instead of what they
>>> want everything to be. Unfortunately, most, an awful lot anyway, don't
>>> know
>>> what they themselves are let alone what somebody else is. I kind of
>>> compare
>>> it to illegal immigrants coming to this country to make a better life.
>>> Why
>>> not just stay where you are and make a better life? The analogy isn't
>>> perfect because that's a political thing, but you get the idea. Or you
>>> probably don't, so just take my word for it. Also, the world is not
>>> working. Look around you. It's not working, so admittedly it's not
>>> anchored in reality.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Maturity in my opinion is the unencumbered but appropriate flow of
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> emotions.
>>>
>>> Mike: I really and truly don't know what this means.
>>>
>>> Andy: Well, as an example, instead of spouting racism or sexism or
>>> ageism
>>> or whatever, if people would look at what they don't like in themselves
>>> and
>>> accept it (not necessarily fix it, just accept it and say it's okay),
>>> they
>>> would most likely feel the feelings that drove the need to project their
>>> badness onto someone else and the resulting need to hate their badness
>>> that
>>> they see in others. Ultimately hate is just fossilized anger, anger
>>> that's
>>> entombed, not flowing. By feeling the feelings as the energy in motion,
>>> or
>>> e-motion, or emotion, that they are, without hurting anybody or anything,
>>> the energy would flow and just go away and the need to suppress or
>>> convert it would go away. The problem is that stuff is out of awareness,
>>> which is to say, unconscious. If you can't see or feel something, it
>>> doesn't exist, right? So the problem is with the other guy, right? And
>>> here we are, never ending war, greed, and on and on.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> As far as seeing humanity for what it is, well, humanity is what it is.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> You tell me what it is, Mike.
>>>
>>> Mike; That's what novelists do. That's what Bellows does. That's what
>>> I'm trying to do even better than Bellows. Humanity is whatever humans
>>> want, need, love, suffer, crave, think, believe, feel, do, etc.
>>>
>>>
>>> Andy: Humanity is what it does, and humanity is not doing much that's
>>> positive, and never has, unless you think never ending war and greed and
>>> needing another planet in 20 years to sustain itself due to greed is
>>> particularly positive. And novelists are the *last* people in my opinion
>>> to
>>> know anything. They're just more blind people describing the same
>>> elephant,
>>> only they put their impressions down on paper for others to admire.
>>> Sounds
>>> a bit harsh but it's true. In all the years I read literature I learned
>>> nothing particularly useful. That's not to say literature is useless, it
>>> has a place, and I like literature. It's just not particularly useful,
>>> that's all.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> I can't think of an author that I particularly like.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Mike: That's very sad.
>>>
>>> Andy: Maybe. But on the other hand, reality is sooo much more
>>> interesting. I mean, the financial catastrophe which who knows where
>>> it's
>>> going, peak oil, climate change, the something like 50% of the world's
>>> opium
>>> supply that went missing who knows why and on and on. I don't get
>>> distressed by any of it because, unlike everyone else, I know I'm not
>>> going
>>> to live forever so what will be will be. I'l just watch and follow it
>>> and
>>> see what, if anything, happens.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> No doubt you came to praise Cesar, not to bury him...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Mike: Huh?
>>>
>>> Andy: Or in the immortal words of Saul Bellows, that evil twin of Saul
>>> Bellow, get out.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Mike: My point was that I find Bellows just as interesting as when I
>>> first
>>> read him, actually much more so,
>>>
>>>
>>> Andy: Ah, but if you read Saul Bellow, you'd see my point.
>>>
>>> For Eric. Eric, comere (or as Sal Bellows would say, come here). Let me
>>> give you a hug. Squirt goes the flower in the lapel, all over Eric! Ha
>>> ha! Gotcha! Oh that was so much fun. Let's do it again. Comere
>>> Eric...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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--
Julie Krueger
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