[lit-ideas] off-list
- From: "Julie Krueger" <juliereneb@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 22:14:11 -0600
Please, I know this is somewhat intrusive, but would you be willing to tell
me just a little about your kid-hood and why the lack of reading? I would
be very grateful.
On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 2:30 PM, Veronica Caley <molleo1@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> <That's not to say literature is useless, it has a place, and I like
> literature. It's just not particularly useful, that's all.>
>
> I find literature very useful. It helps shed light on lives I can't live
> because I can only live my own. It teaches what life was like in other
> times and places. It teaches that some behaviors are not acceptable because
> it is bad for society and for oneself.
>
> Sometimes people ask me who my favorite teacher was.
> I always say that they are the ones who taught me to read, which in my case
> were several, in as much as at ten years old I couldn't read in any
> language. I grieve over the fact that I don't remember any of their names.
> I had no idea what treasure they were imparting.
>
> Veronica
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Andy <mimi.erva@xxxxxxxxx>
> *To:* lit-ideas <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> *Sent:* Saturday, November 01, 2008 7:26 AM
> *Subject:* [lit-ideas] Re: one of Exit Ghost's political points
>
>
> --- On *Sat, 11/1/08, Mike Geary <atlas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>* wrote:
>
> >>Disillusionment is just divesting one's self of illusions.
>
> Mike: Well, yes, by definition, I guess.
>
>
> Andy: I'll take definition. I think you came to bury Cesar by
> underhandedly praising him with the slur of 'maturity', some horrible,
> undefined condition which presumably allows one to see reality as opposed to
> this wondrous place called illusion.
>
>
> >>Illusions in my opinion are built on sadness and anger.
>
> Mike: Really? I'd say they're mostly built on beliefs that have little or
> no relationship to reality. What the hell reality is, I have no idea. But
> if something doesn't work, it's probably not anchored in reality. That's a
> transcendental truth, just ask Walter.
>
>
> Andy: The underlying question being, why would one develop beliefs that
> have little or no relationship to reality unless reality were the condition
> one were escaping? One does not escape good feelings. As far as what is
> reality, reality is that boring place where people see the world,
> themselves and each other for what they are instead of what they
> want everything to be. Unfortunately, most, an awful lot anyway, don't know
> what they themselves are let alone what somebody else is. I kind of compare
> it to illegal immigrants coming to this country to make a better life. Why
> not just stay where you are and make a better life? The analogy isn't
> perfect because that's a political thing, but you get the idea. Or you
> probably don't, so just take my word for it. Also, the world is not
> working. Look around you. It's not working, so admittedly it's not
> anchored in reality.
>
>
> >>Maturity in my opinion is the unencumbered but appropriate flow of
> emotions.
>
> Mike: I really and truly don't know what this means.
>
> Andy: Well, as an example, instead of spouting racism or sexism or ageism
> or whatever, if people would look at what they don't like in themselves and
> accept it (not necessarily fix it, just accept it and say it's okay), they
> would most likely feel the feelings that drove the need to project their
> badness onto someone else and the resulting need to hate their badness that
> they see in others. Ultimately hate is just fossilized anger, anger that's
> entombed, not flowing. By feeling the feelings as the energy in motion, or
> e-motion, or emotion, that they are, without hurting anybody or anything,
> the energy would flow and just go away and the need to suppress or
> convert it would go away. The problem is that stuff is out of awareness,
> which is to say, unconscious. If you can't see or feel something, it
> doesn't exist, right? So the problem is with the other guy, right? And
> here we are, never ending war, greed, and on and on.
>
>
> >>As far as seeing humanity for what it is, well, humanity is what it is.
> You tell me what it is, Mike.
>
> Mike; That's what novelists do. That's what Bellows does. That's what
> I'm trying to do even better than Bellows. Humanity is whatever humans
> want, need, love, suffer, crave, think, believe, feel, do, etc.
>
>
> Andy: Humanity is what it does, and humanity is not doing much that's
> positive, and never has, unless you think never ending war and greed and
> needing another planet in 20 years to sustain itself due to greed is
> particularly positive. And novelists are the *last* people in my opinion to
> know anything. They're just more blind people describing the same elephant,
> only they put their impressions down on paper for others to admire. Sounds
> a bit harsh but it's true. In all the years I read literature I learned
> nothing particularly useful. That's not to say literature is useless, it
> has a place, and I like literature. It's just not particularly useful,
> that's all.
>
>
>
> >>I can't think of an author that I particularly like.
>
> Mike: That's very sad.
>
> Andy: Maybe. But on the other hand, reality is sooo much more
> interesting. I mean, the financial catastrophe which who knows where it's
> going, peak oil, climate change, the something like 50% of the world's opium
> supply that went missing who knows why and on and on. I don't get
> distressed by any of it because, unlike everyone else, I know I'm not going
> to live forever so what will be will be. I'l just watch and follow it and
> see what, if anything, happens.
>
>
> >>No doubt you came to praise Cesar, not to bury him...
>
> Mike: Huh?
>
> Andy: Or in the immortal words of Saul Bellows, that evil twin of Saul
> Bellow, get out.
>
>
>
> Mike: My point was that I find Bellows just as interesting as when I first
> read him, actually much more so,
>
>
> Andy: Ah, but if you read Saul Bellow, you'd see my point.
>
> For Eric. Eric, comere (or as Sal Bellows would say, come here). Let me
> give you a hug. Squirt goes the flower in the lapel, all over Eric! Ha
> ha! Gotcha! Oh that was so much fun. Let's do it again. Comere Eric...
>
>
>
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>
>
>
>
--
Julie Krueger
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