[lit-ideas] Re: of liver, evil, and John W's tag-line

  • From: Andy <mimi.erva@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 10:47:31 -0800 (PST)

I completely agree.  Obama seems to be a leader, not just a manager.  He's got 
charisma, he can get people to do things.  My concern isn't with him, it's with 
the facts on the ground.  The economy is a house of cards waiting to go over.  
What can anybody do with that?


--- On Thu, 11/6/08, Julie Krueger <juliereneb@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

From: Julie Krueger <juliereneb@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: of liver, evil, and John W's tag-line
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Thursday, November 6, 2008, 6:06 PM


Irene --

I think one of the aspects of Obama which sets him apart to some degree from 
other politicians, and puts him in the "leader" category is his ability to 
bring people together as you noted, but I would add to that and say that I 
think he is able to educate people in a non-patronizing way, that he is able to 
motivate people.  That sounds like just, oh, empty words.  But what I'm trying 
to get at is that if everyday citizens have some hope, some belief, that things 
can change and that we (ordinary citizens) can do together (not having a puppet 
dictator do them for us) actual, visible results (electing Obama) can happen.

The line on Obama's webpage and all his rhetoric about this campaign not being 
about him but about us, wasn't just hollow talk -- if it were, I wouldn't be 
able to use those lovely words, "President Obama".  That is, the fact that he 
as elected (and w/ no doubt, no close call, no recount, etc.) wasn't a miracle 
.... it was evidence that his leadership (even before taking office) is real -- 
not Quixotic talk.  And if he has the leadership abilities to gather the 
numbers of people he did, to do what seemed in his word, improbable, I see no 
reason he cannot lead those same numbers of people in taking some constructive 
responsibility for their lives and their country's direction -- they just need 
to be organized, and shown how, a little.  Shown their options.  I think that's 
one part of his enormous strength -- he can bring together, as you say, 
disparate groups of people, inspire/motivate them to believe they really can do 
something about their lives,
 and help find new outside-the-box directions.  

Perhaps the most grounded aspect of his leadership style (I don't even know 
that I like the word "governing" just now) is his substantial talent for 
organization, that boring, nitty-gritty thing.  

Organizing.


On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 9:24 AM, Paul Stone <pastone@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:


 Andy <mimi.erva@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> I appreciate your observation that I like the idea of Obama being
> elected.  Yes, I also like the reality of Obama being elected.  I think,
> like you, I'm having a problem believing it actually happened.

Why? As soon as RP told me the fix was in, my mind rested.


> I'm also extremely pessimistic about the future.  I just don't see what 
> anybody can
> do.

Just the act of Obama campaigning (nevermind the win) has already made
this the most moderate hurricane season ever. All that hot air stolen
by the 5.3 billion spent on the past
3.99 years of stumping has robbed the oceans of all their vitality.
They've got no more oomph. Don't worry Andy, 'Global Warming' is so
over! One less thing for you to worry about. And I know you do worry.


>When people become disillusioned that the economy is, as I believe it
> is, irretrievably broken, they'll blame Obama.

Are you already disillusioned? Have you beaten the unwashed to the punch?


> It'll be just another of God's little jokes.

Who is this "God" fellow you talk of? Oh, that guy Mike was praising
on Wednesday morning? THAT God?


> If anybody can do anything, I know Obama can,

Did you seriously just write that hyperbole?


> because this has to be a group  effort, as in the world, and he pulls people 
> together like no other.

And this one ^? You should write president-elect Obama with your c.v.
You could write his 2012 campaign ads.


> But I don't know that anybody can do anything.  On the other hand, he already 
> did
> the impossible.  He's a black man who got elected in racist America, so
> maybe he can do another impossible, pull this economy out.

See, you're already doing it? Are you a member of the [incredibly
ignorant and sensational] newsmedia? Although, I think a huge part of
America IS racist, it's okay, because all those people voted for
McCain in States that, in the end, didn't matter. The truth is "WHITE
AMERICA" voted Obama in with great gusto. So I'm buoyed by the fact
that maybe a whole lot of people who I thought were racist idiots are
really just idiots.


> The real problem is in the ignorance of the American people.  If we had a
> media that disseminated news and information, and people had something to
> hang that information on, i.e.,

Phew... for a second I thought you had joined the team. I'm relieved
to see you are still on the horse.


> understood what it means to borrow two
> billion dollars a day just for basic functioning, or even to know it was
> happening, and to understand what the tax cuts are about and who's reaping
> what benefit and who loses, and how ridiculous and exploitive this war in
> Iraq is, and on and on, nothing like this could ever have happened.

What is the "THIS" to which you refer?


> But that's the whole point, isn't it, that the people are kept willfully
> ignorant so that in these last eight years the evil just ran wild as the
> people were exhorted to go shopping.

You might be able to "KEEP" people unwillingly ignorant, but if they
are wilfully ignorant, isn't that their god-given choice? Or at least,
the excuse they'd give you?


>  > So yes, I like Obama being elected.  It's just that the horses are gone, 
> the
> barn is empty.  But, Obama's already done one impossible thing.

Did you REALLY think it was 'impossible'?


>Maybe he can do two.

Or maybe more than two.

>Let's hope.

Is that like praying?

head-buttingly yours,

p

p.s. I get physically ill if I come within 100 feet of liver and
onions being cooked or eaten.



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Julie Krueger

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