[lit-ideas] Re: faith and politics
- From: "Veronica Caley" <molleo1@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 11:33:37 -0400
If there are Christians campaigning about something I wasn’t aware of it, but
there isn’t anything wrong with that either. That’s also the way we do things
in a Liberal Democracy. We campaign, opinionate, protest and vote. But we
don’t “intrude” in the way the church did before the Peace of Westphalia.
Lawrence
My whole point Lawrence was that fundamentalists do intrude into the lives of
people who don't share their beliefs.
Did you read Marlena's first post re this topic? Among other things, they
intrude into family issues that are not any of their business. I gave
examples and you accused me of
advocating licentiousness. Silly, to say the least.
Among other things, the right of privacy is denied in some quarters. Witness
the sad case of Ms. Terry Schiavo.
I started this whole thing not by objecting to anyone voicing her opinion but
placing these opinions into laws that affect everyone who does not share this
faith based opinion. Which is another way of saying you will do what I think
my God wants or else.
I have another concern here. Because the country is divided more or less in
half, I see another civil war coming sooner or later over religion and it's
crippling hand over our lives. Not us, but our grandchildren.
Veronica
----- Original Message -----
From: Lawrence Helm
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 10:39 AM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: faith and politics
Veronica. You quote me as saying “they voice their opinions” and then
respond by saying “they DO voice their opinions” as though I said “they do NOT
voice their opinions.” I didn’t say that.
Islamism intrudes religion into the state. There is no separation.
Christianity does not do that. There is separation. Yes Christians have
opinions. Everyone does. That is not an intrusion. That is the norm of
Liberal Democracy.
If there are Christians campaigning about something I wasn’t aware of it, but
there isn’t anything wrong with that either. That’s also the way we do things
in a Liberal Democracy. We campaign, opinionate, protest and vote. But we
don’t “intrude” in the way the church did before the Peace of Westphalia.
Lawrence
-----Original Message-----
From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of eternitytime1@xxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 5:58 AM
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [lit-ideas] faith and politics
Hi, Phil,
This was the part of Lawrence's post that I was referring to:
From: "Lawrence Helm" <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Religion and politics
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 10:02:04 -0700
Nonsense Veronica. Christian Fundamentalists do not intrude themselves
into
public policy decisions. They voice their opinions. No one is even
campaigning
for a Christian position since Falwell died. Most of them believe
fervently in
the separation of church and state like the rest of us. Most of them,
if they
are hard-core Fundamentalists, won’t run for office because “the
time is
near.�
My point was that they DO voice their opinions--and do very much have
an agenda. I actually did not mean to say that it was 'good' or 'bad'
that they did so. I was just trying to point out that they are doing
so--and who some of the major players still are
You are correct--that is not all of them nor is it the ones who have
been trying to rise up and create an opposite "Christian" point of
view--like the 86 Christian evangelicals who signed a global initiative
dealing with global warmingpeople like Rick Warren come to mind-but it
was argued against bof the more Far Right Christian
Fundamentalists--see the NY Times article at
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/08/national/08warm.html?_r=1&ex=1155787200&en=19d0c89eb3b4f5c6&ei=5070&oref=slogin
Peope like Brian McCla
ren have gone through alot of criticism for not
holding fast to the fundamentalist agenda but still focusing very
strongly on doctrine [the emerging church world-- Not to mention
people like Jim Wallis who has always been active in trying to turn the
focus of the Christian agenda towards the caretaking of the living--in
very different ways than the fundamentalists
You are absolutely right--we do tend to bring our belief system to the
table--as people like Former Sen Jack Danforth have stated in his book
Faith and Politics.
But, Jerry Falwell, while raising the bar and pushing forward the
agenda of the Far Right, is by no means the only leader in that world.
(Nor is Pat Robertson)
Best,
Marlena
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