[lit-ideas] Re: What happened at Abu Ghraib?
- From: andy amago <aamago@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 10:20:22 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
-----Original Message-----
From: Ursula Stange <Ursula@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: May 13, 2004 9:43 AM
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: What happened at Abu Ghraib?
Interesting. This lesson dates all the way back to the Spartans. They
wanted their boy soldiers to learn to live off the land and, in training
for the stealth required for that, barely fed them, encouraged them to
go out and steal and then punished them if they were caught. Punished
not for the stealing but for the getting caught.
A.A. Great minds think alike. I did not know that Spartans were generally
punished for survival. I only knew that they were required to have sex, for
obvious reasons to perpetuate the group, and they were severely punished if
they got caught. Weird has been around a long time.
To Mike: Joseph Heller's Catch 22 speaks to the military, but, as you point
out, mixed messages are a big part of the bigger world as well. Maybe rather
than reforming our prison system over and over, we could put a few dollars into
not making people crazy in the first place. Maybe then weird would begin to
fade away.
A.A.
Ursula
John Wager wrote:
>I DO remember our "lesson" in military ethics from Basic Training,
>though. It was taught as only an Infantry Drill Sergeant could have
>taught it, and it was a perfect lesson, the kind of lesson you use as a
>model of how to teach.
>
>One slightly slow trainee inquired of the Drill Instructor if he could
>go to the snack bar down the road. This had always been "off limits" to
>trainees, reserved ONLY for cadre, with the promise of being able to
>perhaps go to the snack bar at the very end of training. But much to
>everybody's surprise, the DI said "sure you can go to the snack bar!"
>We looked up in surprise, but that was all that was said. Later the
>trainee who had asked the question returned, eating the remnants of a
>hamburger and a milk shake. The DI saw him and started yelling, making
>the trainee throw the food in the trash and start doing push-ups. The DI
>told the trainee that the trainee was restricted to the company area for
>the next two week-ends, the first week-ends that we would have been able
>to go into town.
>
>
>"But you said I could go" the trainee complained.
>
>
>"I'm not punishing you for going to the snack bar; I'm punishing you for
>getting CAUGHT going to the snack bar!" was the DI's reply.
>
>
>THAT was my real training in military ethics.
>
>
>
>
>
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