[lit-ideas] We Americans Who Love Rather Than Hate Our Nation
- From: Mike Geary <jejunejesuit.geary2@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 23:46:12 -0500
*LH*: "We Americans, at least those of us who love rather than hate our
nation, think of ourselves as peace-loving."
*MOI*: Do you now? Is it because we love peace so much that we've been at
war continually since 1941?
*LH*: "Yes, I have heard the anti-American assertions that the provocations
that sent us to war were not always very serious, but that was not the view
of those in government who called for the war. Our tradition is of being
slow to anger and slow to war."
*MOI:* Absolutely, except, of course, for our adventures in Korea, Vietnam,
and El Salvador and Nicaragua and Peru and Angola and Granada and Panama and
Serbia and Lebanon and Iraq and Afghanistan -- yes, but for those exceptions
our leaders have always been men slow to anger and slow and war. Yes,
indeed. Yes, yes, yes.
*LH:* "...what could our pacifists or even our peacemakers present to other
nations as something to be emulated? Numa's Rome could describe its
commitment to religion. Can we in the U.S. do that? A majority here describe
themselves as Christian; why can't we build upon that? The reason is that,
unlike our Islamic neighbors, we relentlessly separate Church from State. We
can't say that we are a Christian State committed to peace."
*MOI:* "...we relentlessly separate Church from State." Do we now?
Apparently you're not aware of the Texas State Board of Education whose
decisions about what can go into textbooks has national significance due to
the number of books they buy. First and foremost among the good Christian
Texans is that Christianity always be presented in a positive light. No
criticism allowed. Oh, yes, we diligently separate Church and State.
*LH:* "...what could our pacifists or even our peacemakers present to other
nations as something to be emulated? Numa's Rome could describe its
commitment to religion. Can we in the U.S. do that?"
*MOI*: No, Lawrence, we can't, we shouldn't, we must never. The whole damn
point of separation of church and state is that the government is free from
religious dictums.
*LH:* " A majority here describe themselves as Christian; why can't we build
upon that? The reason is that, unlike our Islamic neighbors, we relentlessly
separate Church from State. We can't say that we are a Christian State
committed to peace."
*MOI:* See? Even you understand.
*LH*: "... what about the Secular pacifists, what do they have to offer to
other nations as an example? Can they point to their own piety, to the way
they worship at the Secular temple of Janus of the Closed Door? I don't
think so."
*MOI*: Where is this shit coming from? I thought you were onto some
rational thought.
*LH*: "When China, among other nations, looks at us, they see
licentiousness, profligacy, and self-indulgence.
*MOI*: So? Does that keep you awake at night, worrying about what the
Chinese think of us?
*LH*: " If our Secularists could put forward that sort of example [Numa's
desire that people be moral], the Chinese for one, would be impressed, but
they can't.
*MOI*: So you truly are worried about what the Chinese think about us.
Amazing.
*LH:* "In the interests of "liberty" aka "licentiousness"...
*MOI: * Wow! You should have been a Catholic about 800 years ago. You
would have been right at home.
*LH: *"...they [secularists] are busy nullifying most of the virtues our
founding fathers admired...
*MOI: *Like slavery, like misogyny, like killing Indians for their land,
like notions of merit through wealth.
*LH*: Instead they [secularists] exalt "civil rights." These Civil Rights,
unfortunately, don't match any set of "moral virtues" known to man."
[give me a moment here -- I have to catch my breath]
*MOI*: OK, I'm OK now. Maybe I don't know what Lawrence means by "moral
virtues." I think of ALL moral virtues as those behaviors that spring from
the recognition that all human beings have an equal right to existence and
that by virtue of their existing, they deserve respect, consideration, and
care to at least the measure that we expect for ourselves. Secular liberal
values to me are straight out of the Sermon on the Mound. I don't think
Jesus was divine. He never claimed to be. No, he was a secular
left-liberal socialist. He loved all existence. You go, JC!
Mike Geary
Memphis
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