[lit-ideas] Re: The new fascism
- From: Eternitytime1@xxxxxxx
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 15:57:06 EST
In a message dated 11/6/2004 1:02:08 PM Central Standard Time,
andreas@xxxxxxxxxxx writes:
And what will happen to the Jews? They're the canaries in this very
dark coal mine. Bush has already announced he will punish those who aren't
with him. 75% of
Jews voted against Bush. What will he do to Israel?
Hi,
Oh, Dear. I really do need to finishing sorting my thoughts. <sigh> I
wish there was a way to make that dimension of my brain move a bit faster.
But, please do NOT equate all religious folk (esp Christian) with the
evangelical and fundamentalist world. They are *not* all made in the same
mold.
On my list of hundreds of women of all sorts of faith, it has been very
curious to see the Christian camp so so divided.
I've never seen so many Scripture verses flying across my screen. We have
so many religious traditions on that list and so many different viewpoints
that usually the traditions exchange information but not generally within
themselves...
I definitely understand the frustration. There is, though, no reason for
throwing 'religion' away like that.
One of the more refreshing parties I attended recently was at some friends
(I forget the occasion...) who had just finished putting in a swimming pool (it
was still warm enough for kids to swim but too cold for me <g>) I really
really enjoyed their friends. (only one other family was from Lee's
Summit--as is the family having the party. The party family's son was
befriended by my
son years ago in school, they have gone through scouts together--and he is
extremely gifted--but teased alot because he seems so often to be 'somewhere
else' [he's usually thinking about something but not too many will be patient
enough to dig deep to discover that--and he can be awfully irritating to
have around because of that if you do not understand what is happening inside
of
him. Ben and I have had to 'explain' him to most of the other scout parents
as his parents are also kind of clueless as to what the boy goes through....]
I do go on sometimes, don't I? <sigh> Just remember that our greatest
weaknesses are also our greatest strengths....
Anyway, one of the women there is the minister of a Unitarian Church.
Religion. However, she is, actually, an atheist. (She and her husband also
recently bought a home in France <g> where she was telling us the reaction of
the
natives there when they found out she was a minister....)
Organized religion, even, is so so varied.
I understand, though, that you mean 'evangelical Christianity'. I also
believe that it is pretty much time for the non-evangelical Christian churches
to begin to understand why so many have gravitated towards the evangelical
churches.
It is NOT, initially, because of relgious beliefs. If you really really
read the 'friendship evangelism' handbooks/studies/how-tos--you will
understand
that. Once they have them there, it is fairly easy to gradually get people to
discount pieces of internal dissonance until they are so involved that it is
easier to go along and, besides, some of the people teaching are VERY VERY
good at being logical and come across as very smart. And, they are. If you
take a teeny tiny step away from a straight line and begin to
curve--eventually you will end up far away from the straight line but you won't
really know
why unless you go waaay back to the beginning.
That is often what happens.
Alot of it has to do with the need for support systems in our culture. The
social nature of people. Alot of it has to do with understanding what the
purpose of a 'church' or a religion is and is desired by "people".
SOME of it does, indeed, have to do with making life easier for the 'married
with children'. Organizations like Focus on the Family have thrived with
providing easy to read information and how-tos for them. Listen to something
long enough and what happens? Not only do you begin to believe it, but you
end up believing it, often, more than you might otherwise have done ...
I'm not able to explain this, yet, I fear.
Sorry...<sigh>...but thought I'd try.
Finding the value in 'relgion',
Marlena in Missouri
OUT
You are correct, though, in regards to Gay Marriage being what turned many
voters 'out' <g. . (my other list has been rather fascinating in that regard,
as well--and the gay members are definitely keeping quiet during this one as
the frustration level amongst those who consider themselves very
serious-minded Christians who are furious at their religion being co-opted and
owned by
what they consider a fringe element is also fascinating.)
ISRAEL and BUSH
Having just finished watching a television show on the Christian station, I
would tell anyone living in Israel NOT to worry. (hey, I was taping cartoons
for Ben who is on a campout and when I went to turn it off, I quickly
flipped through to see what else was on [we don't take cable or satellite but
get
lots of local stations...] I left it on just out of curiousity...
Did you know that the show has Christians feeding people in Israel? Did you
know that if you just send $50, a family in Israel can practice their
religion? Did you know that the Jewish people in Israel *know* that it is the
Christian in America who is feeding them so that they can practice their
religion? Did you know that for $82 a month, you can make Israel safe from
terrorists? It was very persuasive and sweetly said. I was almost ready to
send in
my money!
Did you have ANY idea that the Christian here in America makes a Jewish
person here in America feel welcome? And that we are the only nation to do
so?
(It's true--I heard it on the television)
The show was produced by a Messianic Jewish congregation and a large
evangelical Christian church (I was trying to remember where I know the
pastor's
name from--it keeps escaping me...)
The evangelical Christians are firmly firmly behind Israel. They do not, of
course, have any real idea as to what is happening there or anything about
the borders or the wall or any of the tension that occurs within someone who
would like to see an Israel but within its borders and not kicking others out
... I do not believe that Bush is necessarily in favor of 'Israel' (if you
see his policies in the inital part of his first term it is quite clear that
he was everywhere on the map of decision-making concepts of what to do in terms
of what he wanted done there--but that soon changed.) But, the people of
the evangelical world have his ear now...
And, if he wants to continue the Bush dynasty and have Jeb take over next (a
rumor I keep reading about...), he'll keep listening to them.
*************************
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