L. K. Helm writes: "Greater love hast no man than that he would lay down his life for a friend." --- Right, but we should consider Speranza's Axiom more seriously: I wrote: Anything worth living for is worth dying for. However, the reverse is not true: everything worth dying for is worth living for. I don't want to be too sophistical about this, and brainwashing need not be a terribly bad thing. Leonidas was possibly _brain-washed_, and what's more, he was possibly very superstitious, and abiding by the oracle that did say that one Spartan king _had_ to die for the country to prosper. The Greeks were _very_ superstitious. The point Helm makes about 'friend' is interesting, because one criticism that military historians make of the Thermopylai is that it was a gang of gays, or homosexuals -- the 'male bonding' etc. Which would be double brain-washing. So when Helm speaks of a friend we have to be careful what one means. To me, and to Aristotle, 'friend' is a _very_ personal thing, and has nothing to do with one's nation, which seems to be the case that was with the Thermopylai -- "Spartans" against Persians" -- "Thebans" joining "Spartans" etc. I don't think it's the sense of 'friend' we want to. The sense of friend I want is the sense that W. H. Auden expresses in his War Requiem, in that horribly pathetic sequence where a Hun is talking to a Tommy Atkins -- a friendship that could have been but it ain't. Or, in Borges's poem, "Jose Lopez and John Ward", about the Falklands Affair -- a friendship that was nipped in the bud because Thatcher thought so. Glory, valor, etc -- are nice to _die_ for -- but it's more difficult to think of them as constant trends in one's life that will constitute one's happiness. My happiness may consists in me _sailing_, or playing golf or cricket -- but hardly on being _brave_. This is more like an incidental episode, when necessity calls, or duty ca lls. The Greeks were underpriviledged because they were _constantly_ at war, so the warrior ideal was a necessity. And note that unless you're really into Greek 'studies', it's the boring Athenian perspective that prevails -- culture in the time of peace -- rather than the Spartan military values, which have passed down as 'archaic', even barbarian. It's not as a philosopher I'm talking when I realise that Philosophy could never have even _start_ or _be born_ in Sparta. Some military types are brainwashed because the rule of 'due obedience' is something civilians don't have to go through. If it were a matter of mere morality, the concept of 'due obedience' would be empty. I think perhaps 150 of the 300 were acting out of 'due obedience' which would require a means-end analysis for their actions -- perhaps they were acting like they did on fear of the punishment for desertion or cowardice. There's also some brainwashing in the military types that they think they must _ALWAYS_ be out defending (and sacrificing their lives for their 'anonymous'? friends). They can't enjoy a film, they can't enjoy a golf match, they can't enjoy a sail -- they ALWAYS have to be thinking of their duties -- and that makes them boring. Sometimes a friend is one you just like to play poker with! But feel free to brain-wash. I'm more interested in brain-drainage. Why is it that Buenos Aires or Santa Maria dellos Buenos Aires never COUNTS as a place of academic prestige but for, say, Latin Americanists who will have a sabbatical in the land of Borges? Why is it that the British Council offers scholarships -- like this stupid Prince of Wales scholarships -- for the best of the Argentines -- or any other 'out-of-the-circuit' place -- to have to undergo a process of 're-education' in, say, the environs of Foucault's dirty saunas? Brain washing at least is clean. Geary probably knows what's Greek for 'brain washer'. Cheers, JL Buenos Aires, Argentina ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com