[lit-ideas] Lists of philosophers and poets
- From: "Lawrence Helm" <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 17:59:16 -0800
J. L.,
Bolano has a huge long list of Chilean poets in his Distant Star which I
finished this morning - longer than your list of philosophers - everyone in
Chile must be a poet. Not everyone wants to publish so he counts
unpublished poets as well. They belong to Poetry reading groups, clubs and
seminars and they are all happy to read their poems to you. They read their
poems out loud and are jealous of the good poets and the handsome ones whom
the girls are attracted to.
According to the writing on the back, this novel was considered great. I'll
have to read some reviews now to see what others thought of it. Coming out
of a Negative/Positive consideration I was conscious of Bolano dealing with
a lot of negativity, but he does it so engagingly and entertainingly that I
forgave him.
But I haven't forgiven Alejandro Jodorowsky. I just finished watching his
El Topo. It is apparently considered a Mexican Cult Classic - maybe not
only Mexican, I don't know. It was introduced back in 1970 by John Lenon
who said this was his favorite movie. It was considered a "midnight movie,"
perhaps because it was so bizarre and outrageous that normal people wouldn't
want to be exposed to it - so it was only shown at midnight when just the
abnormal people were awake.
But times change, perhaps more people are abnormal now. Maybe they're in
the majority. Anyway, the movie was released on DVD last May. I decided to
watch it last night because I am apparently in a mood for Latin American
artistry. However after 15 or 20 minutes of it I shut it off and resolved
to smash the DVD to bits and throw it away, but then caution had me set it
aside for awhile. Then after finishing Bolano's novel I checked Wikipedia
and read the following: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Topo This article
outlines the entire movie. I was encouraged that some people took it
seriously; so I watched the rest of it and then read the rest of the
Wikipedia article.
My considered opinion after watching the movie and now that I am once again
calm is that Jodorowsky and Wieder (Bolano's serial killer) would like each
other.
Lawrence
From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Jlsperanza@xxxxxxx
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 4:51 PM
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [lit-ideas] The heyday of Oxford philosophy
By "heyday of Oxford philosophy" I am merely IMPLICATING that what passes
for philosophy in Oxford today can be described as it once was, as "Oxford
philosophy", and it may just as well...
Note too that Grice qualifies this as "the heyday of [Oxford]
ordinary-language philosophy"
R. Paul:
"Out of this whole lot of 'Oxford philosophers,' I knew Paul Grice best."
-- I'm never sure if it's heyday or hayday, so bear with me -- or correct as
you wish.
I'm trying from memory to make an alphabetic list of Oxford philosophers
more or less of Grice's generation (born 1913, d. 1978). So we can discuss
the shape of the noses, etc. of those who we may have known or otherwise:
AUSTIN, John Langshaw (1911-)
born Lancaster -- Lit. Hum. BA, MA Oxon
HAMPSHIRE, Stuart Newton (b. 1919-)Married to
Nancy Cartwright. born Lincolnshire. All
Souls Graduate College.
HARE, Richard Mervyn (b. 1919)
born Devonshire. White's professor Moral.
GARDINER, Patrick
cited by Grice as member of the playgroup.
NOWELL-SMITH, Peter Horace
born London? Trinity -- next to Grice's St. John's
PEARS, David Francis
born London. -- collaborator with Grice.
RYLE, Gilbert (born Brighton, Sx, 1900)
Magdalen Coll, and Waynflete
STRAWSON, Peter Frederick (1919-)
born Dulwich, London. University Coll, and Waynflete
THOMSON, James F. collaborator with Grice
Born London? 1911? Married to Judith Jarvis
Christ Church -- but early emigre to MIT, c. 1963
URMSON, James Opie (Corpus Christi) (b. 1913-)
born Harrogate, Yorks
WARNOCK, Geoffrey James (b. 1921)
born Leeds, Yorkshire. Hertford and Vice-Chancellor
WOOD, Oscar P. (Hertford College) cited by Grice, but
of a previous generation.
-- and that must be it!
Grice made a special point about the Playgroup (that would meet on Saturday
mornings -- This was organized by Austin, and none senior was accepted. Upon
Austin's death, G. E. L. Owen said the coordination of the group was left to
Grice, from 1960 till his departure for UC/Berkeley.
But Grice had other duties, too as University Lecturer and tutorial fellow.
The list of his students is immense, so it seems he hardly had a free day
for leisure at his favourite pubs in St. Giles's Street: The Bird and the
Baby, and the Lamb and Flag.
It was in his American 'season' that he befriended quite a few more: Baker
(although they had possibly met in Oxford), Myro, Warner, and most of the
faculty at UC/Berkeley and surrounding area (Reed notably).
I once had compiled a list of all the places where he was visiting lecturer.
The man seems to have travelled quite a bit, but that's American philosophy
for you (compared to the more parochiality of the Oxonian scene)
I once also compiled a list of philosophers cited by Grice, and they
included that one recently cited by McEvoy, J. L. Mackie (born New Zealand).
Grice discussed Mackie and Foot in "Conception of Value".
Back to Ryle, and G. E. L. Owen (his obit. of Ryle in Proc. Arist. Soc.),
Owen writes that there were these two cliqued groups: The Ryle Group (Wood,
Ryle, Owen, Woozley) and the Austin group (Grice, etc.). Owen goes on to say
that there was more of a 'sanctity' if that's the word around the Austin
group.
I once detected something of what we could call the early playgroup -- that
would meet at All Souls before the war -- Austin, Berlin, Hampshire, Ayer.
But I now have evidence that, against what I believed, Grice never attended
the Thursday night meetings of this 'playgroup'. He was apparently
considered to have been 'born on the wrong side of the tracks' to attend.
Stuff and nonsense, but true.
Having been to Oxford, I feel the fascination, but also the disorganization
of it all, and I cannot really imagine how things were in the hayday of
Oxford linguistic philosophy.
I imagine they were very closed, and as R. Paul, quite a barrier between
those who were the 'heroes' and had fought in the 'Phoney War' and were
full-time tutorial fellows, and the "Colonials", or Scholarship, or other
visitors.
Then they had the academic duties, as when Grice invited Bergmann, but he
said he could not think of wasting an afternoon with some English
futilitarians.
Quine was also a guest of Grice at St. John's, but the ungrateful
philosopher from Akron Ohio, criticises the negligence that he perceived in
Grice.
In general, they must have had some merry good old time. Apparently the
seminar lectures that Grice gave in collaboration were especially fun (with
Strawson, on Categoriae and De Intepretatione, also with Austin, Warnock, on
phil. perception, and a few others). In these
University Lecture open classes they apparently _ignored_
the audience completely. Quine witnessed a few of these
meetings (It was when Grice/Strawson had come up with their "Defense of a
dogma" in attack of Quine) and thought them
so parochial and 'gentlemanly' in an old-fashioned way ("Now, Mr. Strawson
recalls my comment on our previous meeting, and he describes my ... as...")
that he found worth sharing.
We must remind that Quine's background was mainly mathematical. His degree
is in Mathematics and only later started to join the Philosophical club at
Harvard.
Grice was apparently popular in the East Coast -- where he delivered at
least one lecture at Wellesey, and he would find affinity with philosophers
at Princeton (Harman) and most places where philosophy was being
_mentioned_.
His love was this love of wisdom -- and at least he helped one Argentina put
a human face (other than Socrates's ungainly one) to what this Argentine
also loves.
Cheers,
J. L. Speranza
President of "The Grice Club" (River-Plate chapter)
etc.
Buenos Aires, Argentina
snail-mail to
La Pampa, Calle 58, No. 611
La Plata B1900BPY
Buenos Aires, Argentina
heyday, Also 6 hayday, 8 hay day.
[Of uncertain origin; perh. connected with prec. The second element does not
seem to have been the word day
The stage or period when excited feeling is at its height; the height,
zenith, or acme of anything which excites the feelings; the flush or full
bloom, or stage of fullest vigour, of youth, enjoyment, prosperity, or the
like. Often associated with day, and taken as the most flourishing or
exalted time.
1751 SMOLLETT Per. Pic. (1779) II. lxviii. 221 Our imperious youth..was now
in the heyday of his blood.
_____
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