[lit-ideas] Re: I should have known better with a girl like you
- From: Donal McEvoy <donalmcevoyuk@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: "lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 22:39:47 +0100
The line from Walter is in "Only Sixteen" by Sam Cooke. According to the lyric,
he was sixteen too at the time he fell for her, so that "Only Sixteen" isn't as
creepy as it might be if he were a young fifty-eight.
The suggestion that there is something otiose about "better" in the phrase "you
should know better" is surely mistaken, as the phrase is a contraction of "you
should know better than that" and "you should know better than that" is not
synonymous with "you should know" simpliciter.
Hence if it is Gricean to argue as follows:
"I am going to claim that, as per Grice
("do not be more informative than is required"), 'better' is otiose, and
that (iii) is logically equivalent to
(iv) She is old enough to know."
this shows how Gricean it can be to stumble badly on the actual sense of
expressions.
Dnl
Ldn
On Friday, 22 August 2014, 22:10, "dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx"
<dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
We are considering W. O.'s utterance:
(i) She was too young to fall in love and I was too young to know
D. McEvoy comments:
>... lovers have enough problems without being distracted by the
limitations of JTB-theory:
where JTB stands for Plato's view of knowledge in the Theaetetus
(discussed by Gettier), as "J" (justified), "T" (true) "B" belief.
It may do to play a bit with the original quote,
(ii) I was too young to know.
contrasts, while it does not scan, with J. Lennon in "Cry, Baby, Cry"
(iii) Let your mother sigh -- she's old enough to know BETTER.
I.e. the idea of 'knowing' better. I am going to claim that, as per Grice
("do not be more informative than is required"), 'better' is otiose, and
that (iii) is logically equivalent to
(iv) She is old enough to know.
Since, if there is room for the mother of the addresee to know better
then, strictly speaking, she knows diddly.
A third-person attribution of 'know' is a different animal
(metaphorically), and W. O.'s quote is a first-person attribution, as, again,
per John
Lennon, as per subject line:
(v) I should have known better with a girl like you.
-- that I would love everything that you do
And I do, hey, hey, hey, and I do.
Again, Lennon appeals to 'knowing better', and again, (v) is strictly
logically equivalent to
(vi) I should have KNOWN with a girl like you.
Because, again, to repeat myself (cfr. Grice, 'do not be more informative
than is required, unless you are being emphatic about stuff") if there's
room for knowing BETTER then I don't know diddly with a girl like you.
Cheers,
Speranza
---
ps. Strictly (vi) should be distinguished from (vii) I should have known
with a girl SUCH AS you -- because 'like' triggers all the wrong
implicatures, like.
ps. 1
Cry baby cry
Make your mother sigh
She's old enough to know better
The king of Marigold was in the kitchen
Cooking breakfast for the queen
The queen was in the parlour
Playing piano for the children of the king
Cry baby cry
Make your mother sigh
She's old enough to know better
So cry baby cry
The king was in the garden
Picking flowers for a friend who came to play
The queen was in the playroom
Painting pictures for the childrens holiday
Cry baby cry
Make your mother sigh
She's old enough to know better
So cry baby cry
The duchess of Kircaldy always smiling
And arriving late for tea
The duke was having problems
With a message at the local bird and bee
Cry baby cry
Make your mother sigh
She's old enough to know better
So cry baby cry
At twelve o'clock a meeting round the table
For a seance in the dark
With voices out of nowhere
Put on specially by the children for a lark
Cry baby cry
Make your mother sigh
She's old enough to know better
So cry baby cry cry cry cry baby
Make your mother sigh
She's old enough to know better
Cry baby cry
Cry cry cry
Make your mother sigh
She's old enough to know better
So cry baby cry
ps 2. I should have known better with a girl like you
That I would love everything that you do
And I do, hey, hey, hey, and I do
Whoa, oh, I never realized what a kiss could be
This could only happen to me
Can't you see, can't you see
That when I tell you that I love you, oh
You're gonna say you love me too, oh
And when I ask you to be mine
You're gonna say you love me too
So I should have realized a lot of things before
If this is love you've got to give me more
Give me more, hey hey hey, give me more
Whoa, oh, I never realized what a kiss could be
This could only happen to me
Can't you see, can't you see
That when I tell you that I love you, oh
You're gonna say you love me too, oh
And when I ask you to be mine
You're gonna say you love me too
You love me too, you love me too
You love me too
In a message dated 8/22/2014 2:30:27 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
donalmcevoyuk@xxxxxxxxxxx writes:
>"She was too young to fall in love and I was too young to know."
("Know" as per JTB theory natuerlich. You gotta problem with that?)>
Young lovers have enough problems without being distracted by the
limitations of JTB-theory:
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