We are discussing with A. Palma the role of logic in the curriculum. We seem to agree that it cannot be a propaedeutic. This idea is German. OED quotes below. I agree that to have a metapaedeutics (after + paedeutics) looks otiose. If you think of the etymology, propaedeutics, is like another Stupid German Word: kindergarten (preschool) Cheers, JL propaedeutic. German Propädeutik subject or course of study which forms an introduction to or preparation for an art or science, or to more advanced study (1787 in Kant; freq. in German academic textbooks from the end of the 18th cent.) < ancient Greek - PRO- prefix2 + Hellenistic Greek , adjective (see PAEDEUTICS n.), after ancient Greek to teach beforehand. With the use as adjective cf. German propädeutisch (1802 or earlier).] A. n. A subject or course of study which forms an introduction to or preparation for an art or science, or to more advanced study. 1798 A. F. M. WILLICH Elem. Crit. Philos. 19 In the mean time Kant's system, or rather his elementary Propedeutic for a system, acquired still greater reputation. [Corrigendum in Contents: for Propedeutic, read Propaedeutic]. 1836 W. HAMILTON Discuss. (1852) 285 If Mathematics..do constitute the true logical catharticon, the one practical propaedeutic of all reasoning. 1855 J. M. D. MEIKLEJOHN tr. Kant Crit. Pure Reason Pref. p. xxv, Logic is properly only a propædeutic [Ger. Propädeutikforms, as it were, the vestibule of the sciences. 1905 Athenæum Feb. 170 Psychology pushes its claim to be the propaedeutic of metaphysics, with dire results to intellectualism. 1936 J. M. KEYNES Gen. Theory Employment V. xxi. 293 We can pass from this simplified propaedeutic to the problems of the real world. 1972 M. KLINE Math. Thought v. 129 Like Plato he [sc. Proclus] believed that mathematics is a handmaiden to philosophy. It is a propaedeutic because it clears the eye of the soul, removing the impediments that the senses place in the way of knowing universals. 2003 Change (Nexis) 1 Sept. 18, I take thinking not to be a source of any moral code or set of ethical principles but a propaedeutic, a preparation for discernment and indeterminate judgment. B. adj. Relating to or of the nature of preliminary instruction; supplying the knowledge or discipline introductory or preliminary to the study of an art or science; preliminarily educational; introductory. 1849 J. D. MORELL Philos. Relig. 139 Judaism was Propædeutic to Christianity. 1868 M. PATTISON Suggestions Acad. Organisation v. 262 The university course is almost wholly special; the liberal and propædeutic studies are relegated to the grammar-school. 1889 J. C. PILLING Bibliogr. Muskhogean Langs. 39 Albert Samuel Gatschet was born in St. Beatenberg, in the Bernese... His propedeutic education was acquired in the lyceums of Neuchatel..and of Berne. 1947 K. REXROTH in D. H. Lawrence Sel. Poems Introd. 10 It is like the propaedeutic symbolism of the dream. 1970 Nature 23 May 775/2 This book is not for the impatient reader after hard, clear facts; nor is it a propaedeutic book easily accessible for the interested beginner. 1997 Times Lit. Suppl. 3 Jan. 9/1 The job of philosophy is essentially propaedeutic, anticipating the needs of the real knowledge-gatherers. DERIVATIVES <NOBR>deutical adj. = sense B. 1867 J. H. STIRLING tr. F. C. A. Schwegler Handbk. Hist. Philos. xxxv. 205 Logic precedes both as *propædeutical [Ger. Propädeutik] of the study of philosophy in general. 1893 Nation (N.Y.) 6 Apr. 257/3 The propaedeutical narration of various well-chosen anecdotes. 1997 Australian (Nexis) 24 July 9 Studies have shown Esperanto has such propaedeutical value for European languages. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com