David had written:- >I originally sent it to just Donal but then I realized I should send it to >everyone and now I think I shouldn't send it at all.> It was well-sent (and since my parents told me never meet strangers except in public places where there are witnesses, it was well-sent to the list). Some comments (with apologies for inevitable deja lu): 1) This is a very important and interesting issue. The issue might be characterised as to what extent art/aesthetics can be explained in terms of 'evolution' in the way we might explain the existence of an elephant or the human eye as the products of the 'descent-with-modification' of adaptive characteristics. 2) There almost certainly has to be something in this evolutionary approach to understanding art and aesthetics. As a broad summary it might be said that when the double-helix breakthrough solved a central weakness in Darwin's theory, namely the absence of a testable mechanism through which 'descent-with-modification' occurs, it did not take long for some to draw to the obvious conclusion that if this newly-enhanced Darwinian framework applied so powerfully to the every strand of the biological world including the animal kingdom it must also be capable of applying powerfully to the human kingdom - including the fields that study the human mind and its products. To say there must be something in this approach is to say it can hardly be the case that human psychology and human culture arise without being subject to 'selection pressures' in the way that an elephant or the human eye are subject to them and not explicable without reference to them. 3) There almost certainly has to be something incomplete in this evolutionary approach to understanding art and aesthetics. One way of approaching this is to examine what makes art worthwhile or valuable and to ask what this much has to do with 'selection pressures' in the sense that we might readily accept these explain the elephant and the human eye. On this view, there is an important autonomy of art/aesthetics [given its values] from evolutionary 'selection pressures' in the Darwinian sense. And this autonomy also marks the point where such a Darwinian explanation fails to capture what is _artistically valuable_ and instead tries to reduce what we regard as artistically valuable to some other level of explanation. Certain defenders of the 'autonomy' of art in this sense might even feel that trying to explain art in Darwinian terms is a kind of category mistake - like trying to explain relations between numbers in terms of the relations between colours. However, even if there is an autonomy of art, this kind of defence of it by reference to artistic values is liable to strike others as question-begging and as an involving an 'immunising strategem' - namely, that any attempt to explain art in terms that are not per se artistic must fail because it cannot therefore explain what makes it art. In addition, this kind of defence is liable to appear naive, uninformed and hostile to Darwinian 'explanation-in-principle' without seeing the potential flexibility and sophistication of the Darwinian model (a flexibility and sophistication it has shown repeatedly in the field of biology). Another way of approaching this is to start by examining the limitations of Darwinian model in general terms (without assuming art has a different status in evolution than the elephant or the human eye, because it has intrinsic values or suchlike). "He says beauty is an "adaptive effect" which is probably true although it's not at all clear how or even why this is true." To this we might add the question raised by (3) - it is not clear _to what extent_ this is true. To what extent is it merely an "adaptive effect"? For insofar as it it not merely an "adaptive effect" it can no longer be explained as merely an "adaptive effect". There is much else to discuss but this post seems long enough for now. Donal Salop ------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html