[lit-ideas] Re: '13 x 13 = 169' and '1 + 1 = 69'
- From: Donal McEvoy <donalmcevoyuk@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 11:59:05 +0000 (GMT)
Some Wittgensteinians seem to argue that '13 x 13 = 169' is something that is
not true because of the reality of mathematical objects but because the
relevant conventions are such that it would be nonsense in ordinary
circumstances to deny this proposition.
This claim re '13 x 13 = 169' has not thrown much light (for me) on the
validity of Wittgenstein's denial of realism in maths. Even the idea
that there are no such things as mathematical objects seems to me
unproven - clearly (or so it seems to me and Popper) the numbers used in
maths, though perhaps sometimes expressed in physical notation or sounds, are
not themselves reducible to _physical_ objects. But that maths does not
consist in _physical_ objects in this sense does not mean it does
not involve _mathematical_ objects - it is, after all, merely a
metaphysical prejudice to think an object cannot be abstract but
must be physically embodied.
The real issue surely is what is the basis for the validity of mathematical
statements - for example, is their validity merely like a definition based on
a convention that has no independent basis in any further 'reality', or is
their validity dependent on a 'reality' [a perhaps non-physical
mathematical reality] that exists independently of our conventions?
These strike me as deep and murky waters.
Anyway I was wondering about having a discussion of the
proposition ' 1 + 1 = 69', which I would have thought was nonsense or
obviously false until a friend of mine said he had found out this
proposition can be true and indeed make a lot of sense with some French
birds.
Perhaps if we have a good enough discussion I can get it published with my
name on it.
Donal
Thinking, always thinking
London
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