The desire to treat 'Bleach smells like bleach' as some kind of tautology may be strong in the dominant western philosophical tradition, but in my household bleach never smells like bleach but like pine and lemon and shit like that. Donal Just making an empirical observation Hope it helps London ___________________________________________________________ ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html