Ok, today we've had our MS bashing. However, tonight, I'm in the mood to say there are some things, besides marketing, that they do far better than Unix. Printing. Set up a printer in Win2k or XP. If it's directly connected, it will probably be detected and automatically installed. If it's on a network, connected to a server, MS will browse the network and find it. Linux. One can try cups (which in Gentoo at least is closely related to samba to the point where samba may not work properly if cups isn't installed. I believe the PS in cups refers to piece and a vulgar word for fecal matter. Set it up--it seems fine. The test page prints. Try to print something. Nothing happens. Helpful error message--job cancelled. Try to restart job--client-error or some such. Look at their included documentation--no section on troubleshooting. Go to their web site--nothing. Go to deja and google--LOTS of things. Ok, it's not just me. Lots of it in foreign languages. :) Most common suggestion is to downgrade to the previous version. No joy. Some other more complex fixes. Nope, no good. MS, if it doesn't work. Go to help--it's actually helpful in Win2k and XP--not to mention that their set up instructions don't go on for several pages about what it takes to create a printing setup that works. Do 1, 2 3 4. If it doesn't work, try this. (We'll ignore their troubleshooting wizards, those are for the AOL users). Still a problem. www.microsoft.com/technet Search knowledge base--with the least bit of intelligent searching, you quickly get 3 or 4 articles, one of which will have the solution. Imagine finding that at ldp. :) Even the larger vendors' knowledge bases are not as good at this as technet. One begins to realize the validity of MS' talk of TCO. Several hours later, I still can't print--oh, sorry, I can. I can boot up Windows 2k which, although cups will not work on the Linux box, it will work with Samba so that the Windows box can print. Seriously, had this been in production--and again, lots of hits on deja, so this problem isn't just my incompetence--and some of them sound like fairly sophisticated *nix users--I would have been wishing my bosses had spent the money for MS. :) (At work we actually use both as print servers). So, I've got to say--it works fine as a print server for an MS box. The fault, in my mind, is in large part that of the people who write cups documentation--either they're leaving out some important steps because they're so busy explaining why they made this, what issues have to be solved and other things that I might read, if I had leisure time, instead of spending it trying to get their product working, or, they're simply ignoring the fact that many people have problems with their software--even the cups howto is horrible, it simply spends most of its time assuming it'll work and if it doesn't work, giving you all the steps to gather information to post to a mailing list. Yes, that's what I want to do to print a simple letter. Not to mention that if you install a printer in MS, then just about all applications, including 3rd party ones, will use it without further configuration. In *nix, you then have to configure Star Office, etc. (Although on my other Gentoo install, where it's working properly, gimp and mutt both print to it without problem.) Thanks--I feel better now, and tomorrow will go back to bashing MS. However, they are superior in printing and in available documentation. -- Scott PGP keyID EB3467D6 (1B48 077d 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 D575 EB34 67D6 ) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Spike (watching, from a distance, a conversation between Angel and a woman he just rescued):How can I thank you, you mysterious black-clad-hunk-of-a-knight-thing? No need little lady. Your tears of gratitude are enough for me. You see, I was once a bad-ass vampire. But love, and a pesky curse, defanged me. And now, I'm just a *big* fluffy puppy with bad teeth. No! Not the hair! Never the hair. But there must be some way I can show my appreciation. No, helping those in need's my job. And working up a load of sexual tension and prancing away like a magnificent poof is truly thanks enough. I understand. I have a nephew who's gay, so... Say no more. Evil's still afoot. And I'm almost out of that Nancy-boy hair gel I like so much. Quickly! To the Angel-mobile! Away! To unsubcribe send e-mail with the word unsubscribe in the body to: Linux-Anyway-Request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?body=unsubscribe