RE: My LEtter to FS
- From: "Rose Combs" <rosecombs@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 21:17:14 -0700
When the updates arrive I apply them, and when there is a long dry spell
without one I start virtually tapping my foot wishing for one. I know
if they released updates once I week I'd be there installing them.
Sometimes I wish they would do that just to give me something to look
forward to and then to say I accomplished it. Installing has been so
easy now that when I am done it hardly feels like I did anything.
Rose Combs
rosecombs@xxxxxxxxx
-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Chris Skarstad
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 8:51 PM
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: My LEtter to FS
Me neither Bruce, me neither!
I just can't use one version and stick with that one, I am always going
to
upgrade, if it's really worth my while to do so. If I stuck with a
certain
version, I would lose out on the cool stability that JAWS 6.0 has. You
guys
who are sticking with 5.0 are probably missing a few cool features like
the
virtual labels, and better xp support, but if you're not using XP and if
you don't do a lot of surfing for things, this probably doesn't matter.
Luckily, FS will be releasing a version that hopefully fixes some of
these
issues soon, so I'm willing to give them a chance to fix them.
I don't know if it's the case or not, but I'd like to think that the
letters people wrote had a little something to do with this next
release.
But if it's just a coincidence, that's ok too. I haven't downloaded 6.1
yet, i'm still waiting for the next build.
At 10:27 PM 4/11/2005, you wrote:
>I can dig that dude but How much are you willing to pay when Long Horn
>finally arrives and the next stable version of jfw is released that
will run
>on it?
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Bruce Toews" <water_drinker@xxxxxxxx>
>To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 8:19 PM
>Subject: Re: My LEtter to FS
>
>
> >I can't take that stance, as I want to use the newer versions of
Windows
> > when they come out. I'm also simply not one who can sit on the
sidelines
> > as versions come out, it's just not my nature.
> >
> > Bruce
> >
> > --
> > Bruce Toews
> > E-mail and MSN/Windows Messenger: water_drinker@xxxxxxxx
> > Web Site (including info on my weekly commentaries):
http://www.ogts.net
> > Info on the Best TV Show of All Time: http://www.cornergas.com
> >
> > On Mon, 11 Apr 2005, Keith Gillard wrote:
> >
> >> That's what I've decided to do. Stay with 5.1. Until FS can give
me
> >> something con concrete they will not be seeing anymore cash from
me.
> >>
> >> Cheers!
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Troy Burnham" <tburnham@xxxxxxxxx>
> >> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 12:48 PM
> >> Subject: Re: My LEtter to FS
> >>
> >>
> >>> Amen to that Chris. I have 6.1 installed but I'm about to go
uninstall
> >>> it
> >>> because for one thing it completely locks up when I try to go on
the
> >>> For-the-People site, and for another thing there's absolutely
nothing in
> >>> it
> >>> that I'll use that isn't in 6.0. I agree with you and everybody
else
> >>> who
> >>> says just fix the bugs and don't give me so many bells and
whistles that
> >>> I
> >>> will never use.
> >>>
> >>> I more than likely won't jump ship over to Window-Eyes because I'm
not a
> >>> power user and Jaws does everything that I need and then some, but
I
> >>> also
> >>> don't plan to pay for anymore SMA's and will never go beyond Jaws
6.0,
> >>> and
> >>> I may even go back to 5.0 and stay there.
> >>> Troy
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Monday 4/11/2005 01:12 PM, Chris Skarstad said:
> >>>> Hi
> >>>> This is also a first for me, not upgrading to thenewest version
when it
> >>>> was
> >>>> released. I've just heard too many damn horror stories, and even
in the
> >>>> past, I downloaded new versions and found out that there were
bugs. But
> >>>> since then I've gotten a bit wiser about how all this stuff
works.
> >>>>
> >>>> I was a beta tester for FS. I don't know if you guys knew that,
but I
> >>>> was.
> >>>> I saw first hand what some of you guys were saying. Some guys in
the
> >>>> development team were reporting *real* errors with the JAWS
program
> >>>> itself,
> >>>> but the programmers absolutely insisted on not paying attention
and
> >>>> just
> >>>> doing what they wanted. They did eventually fix the bugs myself,
and
> >>>> others
> >>>> mentioned by the final release, but it was only in the final
addition
> >>>> that
> >>>> they fixed them, and I believe they probably did it to shut us
up.
> >>>> The acsent is constantly on new features. They figure, we have to
give
> >>>> reasons for folks to upgrade. They have it in their mind that if
they
> >>>> have
> >>>> some kind of fancy hyper-cool new feature designed to make the
lives of
> >>>> all
> >>>> JAWS users easier, people will say oh I just gotta have that,
I'll
> >>>> upgrade. They have come up with some cool things, one of my
favorites
> >>>> being the virtual labels. But the idea I'm trying to get across
is
> >>>> that
> >>>> in
> >>>> their minds, it's more profitable to them to add new features to
keep
> >>>> people happy. But the more new features you add, the more bugs
get put
> >>>> into
> >>>> the product, and some times native support for popular
applications
> >>>> gets
> >>>> broken in the process. So that's what's making a lot of folks
angry. I
> >>>> would have no problem with them releasing an update, or a patch,
or
> >>>> something to fix all these errors and bugs. Give me a screen
reader
> >>>> that
> >>>> works, not one with a bunch of toys I'll never use.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> At 09:55 AM 4/11/2005, you wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Interesting letter, I would check the spelling before sending it
off
> >>>>> to
> >>>>> Freedom Scientific.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>> From: "Bruce Toews" <water_drinker@xxxxxxxx>
> >>>>> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 0:08
> >>>>> Subject: My LEtter to FS
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Here, before Mames tells us to stop the thread, in case he's
still
> >>>>>> monitoring the list, is my letter to FS.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Subject: Disappointment with Recent JAWS Developments
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> First, I want to say that I know there are some very good
people
> >>>>>> working
> >>>>> for
> >>>>>> FS. This is not directed to them. However, I do not know of
other
> >>>>>> avenues
> >>>>> to
> >>>>>> take in expressing my concerns, and I feel these concerns need
to be
> >>>>> expressed.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I have been a JAWS user for several years now. I purchased the
> >>>> product and
> >>>>> all
> >>>>>> related SMA's out of my own pocket. I believed, and still
believe,
> >>>>>> that I
> >>>>> was
> >>>>>> making the right choice.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> However, it seems to me that FS is making not just an
inadvertent
> >>>>> distancing
> >>>>>> from their customer base, but seems to be making a concerted
effort
> >>>>>> to do
> >>>>> so.
> >>>>>> The result is a series of upgrades and updates with little
useful new
> >>>>>> functionality implemented, with few bugs being fixed, and a
growing
> >>>>> feeling
> >>>>>> among the average JAWS user, the people without whom there
would be
> >>>>>> no
> >>>>> JAWS,
> >>>>>> feeling that they have no say. The frustration is mounting, the
anger
> >>>>>> is
> >>>>>> increasing, and that frustration and anger are, I feel, quite
> >>>>>> justified.
> >>>>> Never
> >>>>>> was this made more clear to me than when I tried, through
proper
> >>>>>> channels
> >>>>> in a
> >>>>>> public beta process, to report a bug with JAWS and the
TripleTalk
> >>>>> synthesizer.
> >>>>>> The response I received back was, in essence, Yes it's a bug,
live
> >>>>>> with
> >>>>> it. I
> >>>>>> no longer have a TripleTalk synthesizer, but as the bug sent
through
> >>>>>> all
> >>>>>> incarnations of JAWS 5 without a fix, I can only assume the bug
is
> >>>>>> still
> >>>>> there.
> >>>>>> Access Solutions tells me that FS had promised to include the
JAWS
> >>>> drivers
> >>>>> for
> >>>>>> the DecTalk USB in JFW 6. I don't know about JFW 6.1, but in
JFW 6.0
> >>>>>> this
> >>>>> did
> >>>>>> not happen.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The horror stories I am reading from users on the JFW list have
led
> >>>>>> me to
> >>>>>> decide not to upgrade to 6.1. This is a first for me, becasue I
am
> >>>> one who
> >>>>> very
> >>>>>> much likes to put new software through its paces, which is why
I
> >>>>>> tried
> >>>>> several
> >>>>>> times to offer my services as a beta tester (by way of reward
for
> >>>>>> which I
> >>>>> was
> >>>>>> given several ridiculous runarounds, I gave FS personal
information
> >>>>>> to
> >>>>> which
> >>>>>> they would not be otherwise entitled, and was finally told my
> >>>>>> services
> >>>>> would
> >>>>>> not be required). A lot of these horror stories would, I am
sure,
> >>>>>> have
> >>>>> been
> >>>>>> avoidable if FS would reimplement the public beta process, the
> >>>>>> removal of
> >>>>> which
> >>>>>> is just another example of the programmers isolating themselves
from
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>> end-users.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> FS has further not endeared itself to the general usership by
adding
> >>>>> features
> >>>>>> at additional cost which the competition offers at no
additional
> >>>>>> cost. Iw
> >>>>> will
> >>>>>> soon become just as cost-effective to purchase Window-Eyes as
to pay
> >>>>>> for
> >>>>> the
> >>>>>> upgrading JAWS requires, and given the apparent focus on
stability
> >>>>>> which
> >>>>> GW
> >>>>>> Micro is exhibiting, some users may well see this as
preferable.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> We need FS to concentrate on stability, on bug-fixes, on
evoking
> >>>>>> loyalty,
> >>>>> not
> >>>>>> rage, from its user-base. Loyalty cannot be counted on to
sustain
> >>>>>> JAWS's
> >>>>>> popularity in the future, if that loyalty isn't earned. The
march
> >>>>>> over to
> >>>>> the
> >>>>>> competition will happene, gradually, but it will happen. I am
still a
> >>>>> loyal
> >>>>>> JAWS user, becasue I prefer the JAWS interface. I have, until
now,
> >>>>> defended FS
> >>>>>> and JAWS against many criticisms. But I find the product FS is
> >>>> putting out
> >>>>>> these days, combined with the concerted effort to alienate its
> >>>>>> customer
> >>>>> base to
> >>>>>> be indefensible, and I have moved to the side of the critics. I
have
> >>>>>> both
> >>>>>> products on my system, and they are both up-to-date. My loyalty
to
> >>>> JAWS is
> >>>>> not
> >>>>>> bulletproof, and the more bullets FS fires into it, the weaker
it
> >>>> becomes.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I invested in this. I saved my hard-earned salarty to purchase
your
> >>>>> product. If
> >>>>>> I hadn't invested, if I didn't believe in my investment, I
wouldn't
> >>>>>> care.
> >>>>> But I
> >>>>>> do care, because I want to be a part of the solution, not of
the
> >>>>>> problem.
> >>>>> I
> >>>>>> want JAWS to work because I have put several months' salarty
into it.
> >>>>>> I
> >>>>> want it
> >>>>>> to work because I don't like finding out I made stupid
decisions. I
> >>>>>> want
> >>>>> it to
> >>>>>> work because I truly do like JAWS.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Finally, I urge you to consider this question. The sentiment
toward
> >>>>>> GW
> >>>>> Micro
> >>>>>> from its users is one of increased loyalty. The sentiment to FS
from
> >>>>>> its
> >>>>>> customers is one of increased bitterness, anger, alienation and
> >>>>>> outrage.
> >>>>> Why is
> >>>>>> this the case, and when will FS decide that it is not worth it
and
> >>>>>> aim
> >>>>> toward
> >>>>>> stabilizing the loyalty of the existing users, the paople who
pay
> >>>>>> your
> >>>>> salary
> >>>>>> in the long run, the people for whom FS claims to be in
business?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> Bruce Toews
> >>>>>> MSN/Windows Messenger: water_drinker@xxxxxxxx
> >>>>>> Web Site (including info on my weekly commentaries):
> >>>>>> http://www.ogts.net
> >>>>>> Info on the best TV show of all time: http://www.cornergas.com
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
> >>>>> jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the
subject
> >>>>> line.
> >>>>>> Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the
list,
> >>>>>> or
> >>>>> the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list.
Rather
> >>>>> contact
> >>>>> the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
> >>>>> jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the
subject
> >>>>> line.
> >>>>> Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the
list,
> >>>>> or
> >>>>> the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list.
Rather
> >>>>> contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
> >>>> jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the
subject
> >>>> line.
> >>>> Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> >>>>
> >>>> If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the
list,
> >>>> or
> >>>> the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list.
Rather
> >>>> contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
> >>> jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject
line.
> >>> Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> >>>
> >>> If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the
list, or
> >>> the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list.
Rather
> >>> contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
> >> jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject
line.
> >> Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> >>
> >> If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the
list, or
> >> the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather
> >> contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>
> > --
> > To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
> > jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject
line.
> > Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> >
> > If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the
list, or
> > the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather
> > contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
>
>
>--
>To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
>jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject
line.
>Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
>
>If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list,
or
>the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather
>contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
--
To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line.
Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list, or
the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather
contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
--
To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line.
Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list, or the
way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather contact the
list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Other related posts:
