Re: My LEtter to FS
- From: Keith Gillard <kgillard@xxxxxxx>
- To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 21:27:26 -0600
I can dig that dude but How much are you willing to pay when Long Horn
finally arrives and the next stable version of jfw is released that will run
on it?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Toews" <water_drinker@xxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 8:19 PM
Subject: Re: My LEtter to FS
>I can't take that stance, as I want to use the newer versions of Windows
> when they come out. I'm also simply not one who can sit on the sidelines
> as versions come out, it's just not my nature.
>
> Bruce
>
> --
> Bruce Toews
> E-mail and MSN/Windows Messenger: water_drinker@xxxxxxxx
> Web Site (including info on my weekly commentaries): http://www.ogts.net
> Info on the Best TV Show of All Time: http://www.cornergas.com
>
> On Mon, 11 Apr 2005, Keith Gillard wrote:
>
>> That's what I've decided to do. Stay with 5.1. Until FS can give me
>> something con concrete they will not be seeing anymore cash from me.
>>
>> Cheers!
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Troy Burnham" <tburnham@xxxxxxxxx>
>> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 12:48 PM
>> Subject: Re: My LEtter to FS
>>
>>
>>> Amen to that Chris. I have 6.1 installed but I'm about to go uninstall
>>> it
>>> because for one thing it completely locks up when I try to go on the
>>> For-the-People site, and for another thing there's absolutely nothing in
>>> it
>>> that I'll use that isn't in 6.0. I agree with you and everybody else
>>> who
>>> says just fix the bugs and don't give me so many bells and whistles that
>>> I
>>> will never use.
>>>
>>> I more than likely won't jump ship over to Window-Eyes because I'm not a
>>> power user and Jaws does everything that I need and then some, but I
>>> also
>>> don't plan to pay for anymore SMA's and will never go beyond Jaws 6.0,
>>> and
>>> I may even go back to 5.0 and stay there.
>>> Troy
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Monday 4/11/2005 01:12 PM, Chris Skarstad said:
>>>> Hi
>>>> This is also a first for me, not upgrading to thenewest version when it
>>>> was
>>>> released. I've just heard too many damn horror stories, and even in the
>>>> past, I downloaded new versions and found out that there were bugs. But
>>>> since then I've gotten a bit wiser about how all this stuff works.
>>>>
>>>> I was a beta tester for FS. I don't know if you guys knew that, but I
>>>> was.
>>>> I saw first hand what some of you guys were saying. Some guys in the
>>>> development team were reporting *real* errors with the JAWS program
>>>> itself,
>>>> but the programmers absolutely insisted on not paying attention and
>>>> just
>>>> doing what they wanted. They did eventually fix the bugs myself, and
>>>> others
>>>> mentioned by the final release, but it was only in the final addition
>>>> that
>>>> they fixed them, and I believe they probably did it to shut us up.
>>>> The acsent is constantly on new features. They figure, we have to give
>>>> reasons for folks to upgrade. They have it in their mind that if they
>>>> have
>>>> some kind of fancy hyper-cool new feature designed to make the lives of
>>>> all
>>>> JAWS users easier, people will say oh I just gotta have that, I'll
>>>> upgrade. They have come up with some cool things, one of my favorites
>>>> being the virtual labels. But the idea I'm trying to get across is
>>>> that
>>>> in
>>>> their minds, it's more profitable to them to add new features to keep
>>>> people happy. But the more new features you add, the more bugs get put
>>>> into
>>>> the product, and some times native support for popular applications
>>>> gets
>>>> broken in the process. So that's what's making a lot of folks angry. I
>>>> would have no problem with them releasing an update, or a patch, or
>>>> something to fix all these errors and bugs. Give me a screen reader
>>>> that
>>>> works, not one with a bunch of toys I'll never use.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> At 09:55 AM 4/11/2005, you wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Interesting letter, I would check the spelling before sending it off
>>>>> to
>>>>> Freedom Scientific.
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Bruce Toews" <water_drinker@xxxxxxxx>
>>>>> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 0:08
>>>>> Subject: My LEtter to FS
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Here, before Mames tells us to stop the thread, in case he's still
>>>>>> monitoring the list, is my letter to FS.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Subject: Disappointment with Recent JAWS Developments
>>>>>>
>>>>>> First, I want to say that I know there are some very good people
>>>>>> working
>>>>> for
>>>>>> FS. This is not directed to them. However, I do not know of other
>>>>>> avenues
>>>>> to
>>>>>> take in expressing my concerns, and I feel these concerns need to be
>>>>> expressed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have been a JAWS user for several years now. I purchased the
>>>> product and
>>>>> all
>>>>>> related SMA's out of my own pocket. I believed, and still believe,
>>>>>> that I
>>>>> was
>>>>>> making the right choice.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> However, it seems to me that FS is making not just an inadvertent
>>>>> distancing
>>>>>> from their customer base, but seems to be making a concerted effort
>>>>>> to do
>>>>> so.
>>>>>> The result is a series of upgrades and updates with little useful new
>>>>>> functionality implemented, with few bugs being fixed, and a growing
>>>>> feeling
>>>>>> among the average JAWS user, the people without whom there would be
>>>>>> no
>>>>> JAWS,
>>>>>> feeling that they have no say. The frustration is mounting, the anger
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> increasing, and that frustration and anger are, I feel, quite
>>>>>> justified.
>>>>> Never
>>>>>> was this made more clear to me than when I tried, through proper
>>>>>> channels
>>>>> in a
>>>>>> public beta process, to report a bug with JAWS and the TripleTalk
>>>>> synthesizer.
>>>>>> The response I received back was, in essence, Yes it's a bug, live
>>>>>> with
>>>>> it. I
>>>>>> no longer have a TripleTalk synthesizer, but as the bug sent through
>>>>>> all
>>>>>> incarnations of JAWS 5 without a fix, I can only assume the bug is
>>>>>> still
>>>>> there.
>>>>>> Access Solutions tells me that FS had promised to include the JAWS
>>>> drivers
>>>>> for
>>>>>> the DecTalk USB in JFW 6. I don't know about JFW 6.1, but in JFW 6.0
>>>>>> this
>>>>> did
>>>>>> not happen.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The horror stories I am reading from users on the JFW list have led
>>>>>> me to
>>>>>> decide not to upgrade to 6.1. This is a first for me, becasue I am
>>>> one who
>>>>> very
>>>>>> much likes to put new software through its paces, which is why I
>>>>>> tried
>>>>> several
>>>>>> times to offer my services as a beta tester (by way of reward for
>>>>>> which I
>>>>> was
>>>>>> given several ridiculous runarounds, I gave FS personal information
>>>>>> to
>>>>> which
>>>>>> they would not be otherwise entitled, and was finally told my
>>>>>> services
>>>>> would
>>>>>> not be required). A lot of these horror stories would, I am sure,
>>>>>> have
>>>>> been
>>>>>> avoidable if FS would reimplement the public beta process, the
>>>>>> removal of
>>>>> which
>>>>>> is just another example of the programmers isolating themselves from
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> end-users.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> FS has further not endeared itself to the general usership by adding
>>>>> features
>>>>>> at additional cost which the competition offers at no additional
>>>>>> cost. Iw
>>>>> will
>>>>>> soon become just as cost-effective to purchase Window-Eyes as to pay
>>>>>> for
>>>>> the
>>>>>> upgrading JAWS requires, and given the apparent focus on stability
>>>>>> which
>>>>> GW
>>>>>> Micro is exhibiting, some users may well see this as preferable.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We need FS to concentrate on stability, on bug-fixes, on evoking
>>>>>> loyalty,
>>>>> not
>>>>>> rage, from its user-base. Loyalty cannot be counted on to sustain
>>>>>> JAWS's
>>>>>> popularity in the future, if that loyalty isn't earned. The march
>>>>>> over to
>>>>> the
>>>>>> competition will happene, gradually, but it will happen. I am still a
>>>>> loyal
>>>>>> JAWS user, becasue I prefer the JAWS interface. I have, until now,
>>>>> defended FS
>>>>>> and JAWS against many criticisms. But I find the product FS is
>>>> putting out
>>>>>> these days, combined with the concerted effort to alienate its
>>>>>> customer
>>>>> base to
>>>>>> be indefensible, and I have moved to the side of the critics. I have
>>>>>> both
>>>>>> products on my system, and they are both up-to-date. My loyalty to
>>>> JAWS is
>>>>> not
>>>>>> bulletproof, and the more bullets FS fires into it, the weaker it
>>>> becomes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I invested in this. I saved my hard-earned salarty to purchase your
>>>>> product. If
>>>>>> I hadn't invested, if I didn't believe in my investment, I wouldn't
>>>>>> care.
>>>>> But I
>>>>>> do care, because I want to be a part of the solution, not of the
>>>>>> problem.
>>>>> I
>>>>>> want JAWS to work because I have put several months' salarty into it.
>>>>>> I
>>>>> want it
>>>>>> to work because I don't like finding out I made stupid decisions. I
>>>>>> want
>>>>> it to
>>>>>> work because I truly do like JAWS.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Finally, I urge you to consider this question. The sentiment toward
>>>>>> GW
>>>>> Micro
>>>>>> from its users is one of increased loyalty. The sentiment to FS from
>>>>>> its
>>>>>> customers is one of increased bitterness, anger, alienation and
>>>>>> outrage.
>>>>> Why is
>>>>>> this the case, and when will FS decide that it is not worth it and
>>>>>> aim
>>>>> toward
>>>>>> stabilizing the loyalty of the existing users, the paople who pay
>>>>>> your
>>>>> salary
>>>>>> in the long run, the people for whom FS claims to be in business?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Bruce Toews
>>>>>> MSN/Windows Messenger: water_drinker@xxxxxxxx
>>>>>> Web Site (including info on my weekly commentaries):
>>>>>> http://www.ogts.net
>>>>>> Info on the best TV show of all time: http://www.cornergas.com
>>>>>> --
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>>>>> line.
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>> or
>>>>> the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather
>>>>> contact
>>>>> the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>
>>>>> --
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>>>>
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>>>
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>>
>>
>> --
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> --
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>
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