On SBS2k3 prem - OK, I actually think I got ISA to allow these programs to work, but somehow I have at the same time blocked access to the sites. I added the sites for direct access, that did not work, then found out the exact protocol and IP address and created an access rule for that (and deleted the direct access by domain name). Now it seems to want to work, but now the domain site itself is banned by ISA (I can not even go there in IE like I could before). So I think that by deleting the direct access rule or some other thing I did, I am now NOT allowing access to the site. I get the 403 forbidden error. But all I ever did was add the domain/IP and then delete it. Any ideas? Maybe I should rerun the CEICW again and then start fresh? I have also just purchased Toms book, but will not have it for a few days, so the dumb questions will continue.... Thanks.