[ibis-macro] Minutes from the 8 Dec 2009 ibis-atm meeting
- From: <rrwolff@xxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <ibis-macro@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 10:12:43 -0700
Minutes from the December 8, 2009 IBIS ATM meeting are attached.
Randy
IBIS Macromodel Task Group
Meeting date: 12 December 2009
Members (asterisk for those attending):
Adge Hawes, IBM
* Ambrish Varma, Cadence Design Systems
Anders Ekholm, Ericsson
* Arpad Muranyi, Mentor Graphics Corp.
Barry Katz, SiSoft
* Bob Ross, Teraspeed Consulting Group
Brad Brim, Sigrity
Brad Griffin, Cadence Design Systems
Chris Herrick, Ansoft
Chris McGrath, Synopsys
* Danil Kirsanov, Ansoft
David Banas, Xilinx
Deepak Ramaswany, Ansoft
Donald Telian, consultant
Doug White, Cisco Systems
* Eckhard Lenski, Nokia-Siemens Networks
Eckhard Miersch, Sigrity
Essaid Bensoudane, ST Microelectronics
* Fangyi Rao, Agilent
Ganesh Narayanaswamy, ST Micro
Gang Kang, Sigrity
Hemant Shah, Cadence Design Systems
Ian Dodd, consultant
Jerry Chuang, Xilinx
Joe Abler, IBM
* John Angulo, Mentor Graphics
John Shields, Mentor Graphics
Ken Willis, Cadence Design Systems
Kumar Keshavan, Sigrity
Lance Wang, Cadence Design Systems
Luis Boluna, Cisco Systems
Michael Mirmak, Intel Corp.
Mike LaBonte, Cisco Systems
Mike Steinberger, SiSoft
* Mustansir Fanaswalla, Xilinx
Patrick O'Halloran, Tiburon Design Automation
Paul Fernando, NCSU
Pavani Jella, TI
Radek Biernacki, Agilent (EESof)
* Randy Wolff, Micron Technology
Ray Komow, Cadence Design Systems
Richard Mellitz, Intel
Richard Ward, Texas Instruments
Samuel Mertens, Ansoft
Sam Chitwood, Sigrity
Sanjeev Gupta, Agilent
Shangli Wu, Cadence Design Systems
Sid Singh, Extreme Networks
Stephen Scearce, Cisco Systems
Steve Kaufer, Mentor Graphics
Steve Pytel, Ansoft
Syed Huq, Cisco Systems
Syed Sadeghi, ST Micro
Ted Mido, Synopsys
Terry Jernberg, Cadence Design Systems
* Todd Westerhoff, SiSoft
Vladimir Dmitriev-Zdorov, Mentor Graphics
Vikas Gupta, Xilinx
Vuk Borich, Agilent
* Walter Katz, SiSoft
* Zhen Mu, Mentor Graphics
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Opens:
- None
--------------------------
Call for patent disclosure:
- No one declared a patent.
-------------
Review of ARs:
- Arpad: Send out list of questions from the last meeting.
- Done
- Arpad: Write a clarification BIRD to discuss accuracy issues related to the
various AMI clock_tick algorithms in an IBIS-AMI DLL
- TBD
- Todd: Update the BIRD for IBIS S-parameter box based on feedback from
discussion
- No update
- Arpad: Write parameter passing syntax proposal (BIRD draft)
for *-AMS models in IBIS that is consistent with the
parameter passing syntax of the AMI models
- TBD
- TBD: Propose a parameter passing syntax for the SPICE
- [External ...] also?
- TBD
- Arpad: Review the documentation (annotation) in the macro libraries.
- Deferred until a demand arises or we have nothing else to do
-------------
New Discussion:
1) Discussion of questions from the last meeting and Walter's response.
Fangyi: typo on document, page 4. Related to 'allowed value'.
Walter: let's discuss later.
Walter showed his responses to the 9 questions emailed on the reflector.
1. Walter: defined the Rx_Clock_Recovery_Mean. It replaces Rx_Clock_PDF. Many
models specify clock distribution with parameters dependent on process
corner.
This effect needed to be described better. Along with Rx_Clock_Recovery_Rj,
it
describes a normal distribution (mean and sigma) of the clock recovery
circuit.
Fangyi: sees people ask for other distributions besides gaussian.
- Walter: these new values can be returned by the model. What are the
other
distributions?
- Fangyi: Rx DCD that can be appproximated by a dual-dirac.
- Walter: we should create other reserved parameters for this.
Bob: does this break anything?
- Walter: we don't know of any models using the Rx_Clock_PDF.
- Arpad: we should ask over the email reflector if we want to know of
anyone
using the Rx_Clock_PDF parameter.
2/3. Walter: we have a problem if parameters are put in Model_Specific if they
later are changed in the spec to be Reserved_Parameters. It would be
better to get rid of the labeling.
- Bob: might have been some benefits to this structure. Might be a way
to
keep backwards compatibility.
4. Walter: the Description keyword can be optional throughout.
5. Walter: wants to ignore Format, not drop it. Format violates the basic
principle
of parameter trees.
- Fangyi pointed Walter to page 4 again.
- Walter added 'Allowed Values: (Required) and has to be one of the
following:"
as a description of what is replacing Format.
- Bob did not think that Format should be dropped. This is a fundamental
architecture issue. This will be brought up later for more discussion
and
possible vote.
6. Walter: would like to deprecate Tx_Jitter and replace with Tx_Dj and Tx_Rj.
- Fangyi mentioned that there should also be other jitter distributions
added.
7. Walter: if IC vendor handles jitter in Tx model without GetWave, then you
let
Tx_Init take care of it.
8. Walter: clarified that a list is a list of things of 'Type'.
9. Walter: a list no longer contains typ. For a list, the default value is the
first value if a default is not specified.
2) Discuss Walter's AMI BIRD Draft
Walter: we need to get answers to fundamental questions of Format, Tx_Jitter,
etc.
Can we really get rid of these or not? No point in working on the draft until
these are decided.
Ambrish: will be be getting rid of tables?
- Walter: yes if we get rid of the parameters using tables.
- Ambrish: why not add new distributions to Tx_Jitter?
- Walter: no means of adding corner to Tx_Jitter.
Arpad to Bob: how do you propose getting answers to these questions?
- Bob: any time something is deleted, he wants to know why and what other
options there are.
- Arpad: would like to see a clean spec, but how do we find out if something we
remove is actually needed?
- Bob: it is a fundamental shift in IBIS to remove anything from the spec,
versus just noting that things are not desired.
- Walter: asked Arpad to put this info into an email to the reflector
explaining
that we will discuss these important topics in the next meeting.
- Arpad: asked Walter to send him a private email clarifying two questions to
be
posted on the reflector.
- Walter: will send to Arpad and Bob to refine before posting.
3) Discuss final flow in text form (Section 2 of the AMI BIRD draft)
No discussion.
AR: Arpad to write email to reflector noting these two questions to discuss and
vote on next meeting.
1. Do we deprecate or require Reserved_Parameters and Model_Specific
descriptions?
2. Do we make Format optional?
Next meeting: 15 Dec 2009 12:00pm PT
--------
IBIS Interconnect SPICE Wish List:
1) Simulator directives
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