All, We got into the weeds a little bit on how stimulus patters need to be defined, and we should be doing that - stimulus patterns are important, and require flexibility in functionality and ease of input and parsing. I would like to take a step back, and identify the cost of EDA tools implementing back channel AMI models and IC Vendors need for such capability in IBIS-AMI. As far as the cost to EDA vendors we can all make that judgment for ourselves, but I think we can all agree that this is not simple, and require man months of development and support costs. As far as need goes, I have seen zilch form IC Vendors and Users, other than the one supporter of this BIRD. I personally do not think we should waste any more of our valuable time on back channel, until we get additional support from the IC Vendor and User community, and then only after preliminary .bci files are supplied for each SerDes standard that supports back channel training. Walter Walter Katz <mailto:wkatz@xxxxxxxxxx> wkatz@xxxxxxxxxx Phone 303.449-2308 Mobile 303.335-6156